What would you do?

[Christian4life]

Hi, as many of you may know, I’m not a Catholic, exactly. But I do agree that birth control is wrong…I just don’t know if it is as wrong as other things.

**I mean, what would you do about places like Africa where people are dying right and left because of AIDS? The men are even raping little girls because they are sure to be virgins. It’s pretty bad from what I hear…What would you do there? I mean, if you are against condoms, how would you stop the spread of HIV for people who refuse to quit doing it? Do they already have condoms there or not? **

**I don’t even know because the things I’ve read are so skrewy about it. **

Or, in other situations where there are people who don’t ever want kids. I never know what to tell those people. It’s like, either don’t get married or put out a love ad for someone sterile. There would be such a big market for sterile people…it’s kinda scary.

And, what about people who are already doing it and refuse to stop…are we supposed to let them go on their merry way and end up with abortion after abortion? This just always confuses me… I can never seem to settle this in my mind.

What would you do?

 

[Della]

Hi, as many of you may know, I’m not a Catholic, exactly. But I do agree that birth control is wrong…I just don’t know if it is as wrong as other things.

**I mean, what would you do about places like Africa where people are dying right and left because of AIDS? The men are even raping little girls because they are sure to be virgins. It’s pretty bad from what I hear…What would you do there? I mean, if you are against condoms, how would you stop the spread of HIV for people who refuse to quit doing it? Do they already have condoms there or not? **

The people dying right and left in Africa live under governments that are not telling them to control themselves. Uganda IS telling their people to do so and the rate of new cases of AIDS is dropping dramatically.

And what in the world does men raping little girls have to do with condom use? Aren’t they child molesters whether or not they would or wouldn’t have used a condom?

People who refuse to quit having sex with others who have AIDS are fools, sad to say. They should be told the truth–that only abstinence is the 100% safeguard against getting AIDS through sexual transmission.

**I don’t even know because the things I’ve read are so skrewy about it. **

Or, in other situations where there are people who don’t ever want kids. I never know what to tell those people. It’s like, either don’t get married or put out a love ad for someone sterile. There would be such a big market for sterile people…it’s kinda scary.

If they don’t want to have children they shouldn’t get married. The most normal thing in the world is for a married couple to have children. Those who have rejected that will pay the price, but that is their decision, as bad a decision as it is.

And, what about people who are already doing it and refuse to stop…are we supposed to let them go on their merry way and end up with abortion after abortion? This just always confuses me… I can never seem to settle this in my mind.

As if people are unable to control themselves. No one is a slave to their glands. Grown ups know this.

What would you do?

I’d tell them to stop whining about what they want and start asking themselves why they don’t want what is natural and God-given.

 

[elizabeth4truth]

Dear Christian4life,

Get this message to those who do not know how to live,

“Love the Lord your God with all you heart, mind and strength and love your neighbor, as yourself.”

When we do this there is no need for selfish desire; no need for contraception, fornacation, rape, abortion, murder, theft, lies etc.

Peace,
Elizabeth

 

[deb1]

Hello,

A little reported news story is the success of teaching chastity in the African country of Uganda. I am posting a link, if you use the search feature at the top of the below link(type in Uganda) it will take you to an article on the African country’s success in combating AIDs. Very fascinating.

www.catholiceducation.org

 

[deb1]

Della:

And what in the world does men raping little girls have to do with condom use? Aren’t they child molesters whether or not they would or wouldn’t have used a condom?

.

I think that Christian4Life is referring to a very sick belief in some African countries that having sex with young girls-even infants-can cure a man of AIDS. Very disturbing, isn’t it?

As far as people not wanting children…Catholics can practice NFP. I am not Catholic yet, so I don’t know all the ends and outs of this methods, but I’ve heard that it is very effective.

 

[martino]

Hi, as many of you may know, I’m not a Catholic, exactly. But I do agree that birth control is wrong…I just don’t know if it is as wrong as other things.

**I mean, what would you do about places like Africa where people are dying right and left because of AIDS? The men are even raping little girls because they are sure to be virgins. It’s pretty bad from what I hear…What would you do there? **

The men in Africa are every bit human as you and me…we should not be telling people that they are an exception because they are not expected to control themselves!
Maybe they need to crack down on crime there because if men are raping children we should be putting them in jail, not giving them condoms so that they can rape children more safely!

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**

I mean, if you are against condoms, how would you stop the spread of HIV for people who refuse to quit doing it?

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People that refuse to stop practicing unhealthy behavior probably cant be helped. We cant force people to behave responsibly but we can educate them about the importance of monogomy.

**

Or, in other situations where there are people who don’t ever want kids. I never know what to tell those people.

**
Those people will be the hardest to convince especially if they are not even Catholic. Just explain why the Church teaches that contraception is wrong…it is more about protecting the sanctity of the marriage than it is about prohibiting certain behavior. Sometimes all you can do is pray for people!

**

And, what about people who are already doing it and refuse to stop…are we supposed to let them go on their merry way and end up with abortion after abortion? This just always confuses me… I can never seem to settle this in my mind.

**
If they are getting pregnant then they are not using contraceptives to begin with so then you are not arguing against contraception but against abortion, which (in my opinion) is a much easier argument to make!

 

[vegpotter]

I heard something on NPR in the last couple of months that made me think about condoms/AIDS. In many African countries where condoms have been passed out, many people refuse to use them b/c they see it as a way for the west (read U.S.) to control their population. So, yes, using a condom can stop the spread of AIDS from one person to another, but if people won’t use them, what’s the point?

 

[springbreeze]

The fact is that there is the truth of God and then there are people, the truth of God cannot change, the people have to change and there is only one way to do that, go and evangelise them and take Christ Jesus to them.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[Mercy_Alvarenga]

An interesting point a friend of mine brought up in a conversation about this is that people who believe extra-marital sex and/or drug use is perfectly okay, probably aren’t the same people who believe using condoms is morally wrong.

As far as I know, there aren’t very many faithful Roman Catholics in Africa dying of AIDS, but feel free to correct me if I’m wrong about that.

 

[chevalier]

Okay, I’ll try to help.

I mean, what would you do about places like Africa where people are dying right and left because of AIDS? The men are even raping little girls because they are sure to be virgins.

We can’t tell them “if you’re going to rape her, at least use a condom”. The use of contraception in a non-consensual intercourse is allowed for the victim (not talking about marital rape), so I’m not saying that victims begging the assailants at least to use a condom when the act was unavoidable and it didn’t imply consent, have done wrong. But we can’t tell them “if you’re going to rape little girls, at least use a condom”. We can’t tell girls “if you don’t want to be raped by a pervert seeking virgins to rape, stop being a virgin”.

I mean, if you are against condoms, how would you stop the spread of HIV for people who refuse to quit doing it? Do they already have condoms there or not?

If you asked what were more wrong: staying away from the use of condom but risking communicating a mortal disease to another or using the condom to limit the risk, it would be tough to answer. It feels that if one can think of “at least using a condom”, one isn’t physically compelled by the drive but is indulging in it and using the strong temptation as an excuse to do something he would like to do but is kept from doing by moral orders.

Hi, as many of you may know, I’m not a Catholic, exactly. But I do agree that birth control is wrong…I just don’t know if it is as wrong as other things.

In Humanae Vitae, Paul VI wrote that it was never good to do evil so that good would come out of it.

Or, in other situations where there are people who don’t ever want kids. I never know what to tell those people. It’s like, either don’t get married or put out a love ad for someone sterile. There would be such a big market for sterile people…it’s kinda scary.

Being open to kids is needed for a valid marriage in the Catholic Church. For all I know, the Orthodox wouldn’t change it. Maybe a more liberal Protestant denomination could. But that would be it.

And, what about people who are already doing it and refuse to stop…are we supposed to let them go on their merry way and end up with abortion after abortion? This just always confuses me… I can never seem to settle this in my mind.

If they are bent on getting as much pleasure as they can out of life, we aren’t bound to make it easier for them. Abortion is worse than contraception, but contraception is still wrong. Perhaps it would be licit to tolerate the use of contraceptives for some time, while preaching the proper approach to sexuality, if the alternative were abortion, but we can’t establish contraception as something positive or negative but allowed or some such.

 

[Shlemele]

Teaching abstinence is the only real effective way to curb the spread of aids in Africa. Even the most effective condoms kept in the right conditions are only 90% effective against PREGNENCY, and an AIDS virus is many times smaller than a single sperm cell. Given the fact that most men don’t keep condoms in “optimal” conditions I would guess that drops the effectiveness to 2/3 in most cases (wallets create tears in the latex over periods of time). Add to that the mis-conception that condemns make sex “safe” and people have more risky sex more often. In my opinion passing out condoms is like handing someone a loaded gun and telling them “Make sure you keep the safety on” !!!

 

[Christian4life]

Chevalier…

We can’t tell them “if you’re going to rape her, at least use a condom”. The use of contraception in a non-consensual intercourse is allowed for the victim (not talking about marital rape), so I’m not saying that victims begging the assailants at least to use a condom when the act was unavoidable and it didn’t imply consent, have done wrong. But we can’t tell them “if you’re going to rape little girls, at least use a condom”. We can’t tell girls “if you don’t want to be raped by a pervert seeking virgins to rape, stop being a virgin”.

I can see what I said came acrossed totally wrong. I was NOT saying that if a guy is going to rape a little girl you should just throw condoms at it. I’m saying that AIDS is such a big problem there that some men (who probably don’t have the best morals in the first place but woudn’t normally be doing that to a young girl), are doing horrible things because they believe it will prevent/cure AIDS. I’m not saying that’s okay. That’s just one of the things that are proof the epidemic has gotten pretty bad.

If you asked what were more wrong: staying away from the use of condom but risking communicating a mortal disease to another or using the condom to limit the risk, it would be tough to answer. It feels that if one can think of “at least using a condom”, one isn’t physically compelled by the drive but is indulging in it and using the strong temptation as an excuse to do something he would like to do but is kept from doing by moral orders.

But what about the people who already have AIDS, are we to tell them they cannot ever marry…I mean if that’s what you’re saying I suppose you’d have a point…but I doubt they would listen to that.

In Humanae Vitae, Paul VI wrote that it was never good to do evil so that good would come out of it.

Being open to kids is needed for a valid marriage in the Catholic Church. For all I know, the Orthodox wouldn’t change it. Maybe a more liberal Protestant denomination could. But that would be it.

Protestants have no problem with people getting married who do not want kids. Most are very much into birth control. In fact my MIL is a pastor’s wife and she thinks we should put drugs in the water to keep people sterile, and you’d have to apply for a license to have kids even if you are married. Not saying all prots are as extreme as that, but I bet a lot are. That’s probably my biggest pet peeve with my churches right now.

But, there are so many people who say they believe in “love” and want to get married, but don’t want the responsibility of having kids. Knowing tactless me, I would probably end up telling them they are just being selfish, but even put nicely, how can you tell someone that they should never marry or else start liking kids?..It just makes them hate you.

If they are bent on getting as much pleasure as they can out of life, we aren’t bound to make it easier for them. Abortion is worse than contraception, but contraception is still wrong. Perhaps it would be licit to tolerate the use of contraceptives for some time, while preaching the proper approach to sexuality, if the alternative were abortion, but we can’t establish contraception as something positive or negative but allowed or some such.

I just mean that, I’ve seen SO many young kids who are so irresponsible and shouldn’t be having sex in the first place, but have no intention of stopping, and see nothing wrong with abortion if the contraception “fails”. Which, also, even if they know how to use it, they don’t always because they ARE so irresponsible.

All of you have really good points…but I just don’t know. I mean most people are not Catholic, so they don’t really care what the church says…they just go by the Bible or by their own morality. Which makes it really hard to convince them sometimes.

 

[chevalier]

I can see what I said came acrossed totally wrong. I was NOT saying that if a guy is going to rape a little girl you should just throw condoms at it. I’m saying that AIDS is such a big problem there that some men (who probably don’t have the best morals in the first place but woudn’t normally be doing that to a young girl), are doing horrible things because they believe it will prevent/cure AIDS. I’m not saying that’s okay. That’s just one of the things that are proof the epidemic has gotten pretty bad.

Of course, rape is much, much worse than contracepting. Still, I don’t see how condoms could help here. We can’t relax morals to find cure for totally weird beliefs that get into some people’s heads out of despair and travel by word of mouth.

But what about the people who already have AIDS, are we to tell them they cannot ever marry…I mean if that’s what you’re saying I suppose you’d have a point…but I doubt they would listen to that.

I would say not marry or marry to someone already with the disease, so long as communicating it goes. But then there are also the children. Still, we don’t tell people with heritable diseases to abstain from having children, so maybe we shouldn’t tell people with AIDS. I know one thing: if my future wife ever got AIDS, I’d rather get AIDS myself and die from it than put her away. I would most probably want to marry a fiancee if I were much attached to her, if she got AIDS in the meantime from anything else than consensual sex. If I were to get AIDS, I couldn’t make myself marry anyone or have marital relations if already married.

But, there are so many people who say they believe in “love” and want to get married, but don’t want the responsibility of having kids. Knowing tactless me, I would probably end up telling them they are just being selfish, but even put nicely, how can you tell someone that they should never marry or else start liking kids?..It just makes them hate you.

Truth hurts. But marriage without wanting to have children looks like trying to legalise sex. If without children but also without sex, then why marry at all? There’s been an institution of marriage with abstinence vows attached in the Catholic Church, but… Well, for one I see marriage for something more than a sexual union. but it doesn’t really get along well with what’s being preached nowadays.