What would you say to someone who has a hard time believing the miracles of Jesus and the Saints?

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Tell them people don’t die horrific deaths (like the apostles did) for a lie. Most people would recant if it were all a lie while be tortured to death.
 
Flavius Josephus, the Jewish historian, who did not believe that Jesus was the Messiah, attested to his miracles.

As for the saints, there are several, annem mentioned Fatima for one, that are attested to scientifically ie; scientists say there is no known physical explanation for them.

The Church has always been skeptical of miracles and has investigated them in light of the best knowledge of the day. Even some of the miracles that happened prior to the formulation of the scientific record stand up well today. An example would be Juan Diago’s tilma with the picture of Our Lady of Guadalupe.

Patrick
AMDG
 
Are you saying you don’t believe them, or are you asking what to say to someone else?
 
I would say pray. I’m one to believe miracles are all around us and so is God’s intervention. They may not be as grand as Fatima or our Lady of Guadalupe, but if you pay attention miracles are there daily.

Again, a lot of people don’t know what Faith is. The term blind Faith is an oxymoron; Faith isn’t blind it is build up by years of discernment and prayer.

So, again, the secular world is largely living in their head and not experiencing the world around us. Unfortunately, the internet sort of amplifies this by getting a lot of people living in their head to communicate online together. Well, of course, they are all going to see things the same way otherwise they wouldn’t be communicating with one another. Outside of the head and the internet is a world where if experienced with humility, charity, love and gratitude is transformative.

Life should change a person and being Catholic involves a lot of inner work to create that change. You should look back at your life and in some way be able to say, “look how far I’ve come.” And I don’t mean in terms of wealth or success, that is irrelevant. I do mean in a maturity in Faith and in the knowledge you are a better person than you were before and much more loving and wiser for it. That itself is a miracle.

That is why I no longer argue with Atheists. Atheists have never once shaken my Faith, but in my heart I know that I wouldn’t be able to advise them about what steps to take to be a pilgrim or to take the path of repentance. The path of a Pilgrim takes a whole lifetime and is worth it. I can’t communicate that with them because it is only anecdotal. So, I just pray for discernment and that God has a plan for them.
 
annem said:
Tell them about Fatima. A very, very clear miracle
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And Zeitoun. Which was more recent, had even more witnesses (at least in the hundreds of thousands) and was even photographed.

Oh, wait. That wasn’t accepted as a miracle. Maybe too much evidence. What do you think?
 
And Zeitoun. Which was more recent, had even more witnesses (at least in the hundreds of thousands) and was even photographed.

Good point. Zeituon was astounding!! But I think that was the Coptic church’s miracle and they have okayed it. But I may be wrong. Please, does anyone out there know?
 
annem said:
And Zeitoun. Which was more recent, had even more witnesses (at least in the hundreds of thousands) and was even photographed.

Good point. Zeituon was astounding!! But I think that was the Coptic church’s miracle and they have okayed it. But I may be wrong. Please, does anyone out there know?
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They did. The Vatican passed on it.

But do you appreciate the point being made? I could produce more evidence - much more than you could ever produce for Fatima, and yet Fatima is classed as a miracle and the other not.

Once you get to a point when it can be definitely proved one way or the other (Zeitoun happened frequently over many months) then there seems to be a reluctance to call it genuine. There’s simply too much risk in being proved wrong.
 
Well, no reason for my opinion to be interesting to anyone, but it surely seemed as genuine as it gets. For Our Lady to convert Muslims? What do you think?
 
Lack of belief in Jesus’ miracles: You put too much trust in your own understanding of the world.
Lack of belief in the saints’ miracles: You separate yourself basically from the Church and the Hebrew OT roots which believes that people who are close to God are given special powers. Moses, Elijah, and the miracle with Elisha in 2 Kings 13:20-21, James’s description of Elijah’s miracles (James 5:16-18), Peter and the apostles (Acts 5) are examples.
 
The Coptic Orthodox Church has approved it (and celebrated the golden Jubilee in 2018). An appreciation for the sensitivities of spiritual authority and jurisdiction between Pope and Patriarch (of Alexandria, who is also called Pope) would explain why Rome has not seen fit to undertake its own official assessment of the event.
 
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Separate the two.

Jesus performed miracles to demonstrate that the central point of His ministry was at hand. That central point is

‘repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand’

meaning the Kingdom of God is here on earth as well as in Heaven.

Saints only petition God for a healing to happen. God then , according to His will, grants this healing or doesnt.
 
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Yes I am saying I have doubts and wanted to know what an apologist would say. The argument that the apostles wouldn’t have let themselves be killed for what they testified to seeing is a pretty convincing one.
 
‘The most incredible thing about miracles, is that they happen’ - G. K. Chesterton.
But some people, even if the dead came back to life, they would not believe.
 
Lack of understanding is the cause of this. They need to really form a relationship with Jesus, open their hearts to Him.
 
anon98328916 said:
Lack of understanding is the cause of this. They need to really form a relationship with Jesus, open their hearts to Him.
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Yes. This excerpt from the Gospel sheds Light - as it’s also very deep…

Jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to his own town. 2 Some men brought to him a paralyzed man, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man,
“Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.”

At this, some of the teachers of the law said to themselves, “This fellow is blaspheming!”

Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, “Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts?
Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’?

But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.”
So he said to the paralyzed man, “Get up, take your mat and go home.”

Then the man got up and went home. … When the crowd saw this,
they were filled with awe; and they praised God, who had given such authority to man.
 
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