Whatever happend to active participation?

[ProVobis]

I suppose active participation is in the eye of the beholder. It may be a TV generation thing, but people now seem to seek entertainment. Music no one can join in singing has become the rage, not that many try to sing anyway.

If you’re saying the OF is more suited for TV than the EF, you might have a whole company of agreement.

 

[benedictgal]

You’re painting with a very broad brush here…

Actually, Pope Benedict XVI made this point when he was Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger. He stressed this in The Spirit of the Liturgy when he lamented the fact that all too often, the Mass has turned into a celebration of ourselves. Furthermore, the Prefect Emritus for the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, Francis Cardinal Arinze, also made this point on several occasions, as did the Secretary of the same congregation, Archbishop Malcolm Rajith during his remarks at last month’s Gateway Liturgical Conference in St. Louis, MO.

Active participation doesn’t mean that we have to do something. We simply need to be be someone. We need to be people of faith who come to Mass to offer a pleasing and acceptable sacrifice to God the Father. I do not know my prayers in Spanish, but, when I attend a Mass celebrated using the Spanish language, I participate by silently praying in Latin. Regarding the Gloria, it is certainly fine if the choir sings it. Recall the Papal Midnight Mass. The Gloria and the Credo were sung by the Sistene Chapel Choir. Inasmuch as the notes and words were printed in the worship aids, the choir did most of the singing. Ditto for the responsorial psalm, although, even in my limited Italian, I was able to sing along during the broadcast.

 

[Evan]

It is really sad. We have turned worship of God into amusing ourselves.

I think there has always been a tendency to do this. Although some music directors/chiors forget their pupose. Part of that is the putting of the chior in the front of the church rather than the chior loft.

The writting and performing of classical masses (Mozart, Brahms, etc) was also a way to convert the mass into an entertainment. For the composer it could be a way to praise God or to gain acclamation. For those attending, it could enchance the prayer or entertain.

To properly receive any sacrament, you must be properly disposed. It has always been what you bring to mass, not what you get out of it, that will determine what graces will be granted.

 

[Timothysis]

Actually, Pope Benedict XVI made this point when he was Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger. He stressed this in The Spirit of the Liturgy when he lamented the fact that all too often, the Mass has turned into a celebration of ourselves. Furthermore, the Prefect Emritus for the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, Francis Cardinal Arinze, also made this point on several occasions, as did the Secretary of the same congregation, Archbishop Malcolm Rajith during his remarks at last month’s Gateway Liturgical Conference in St. Louis, MO.

Active participation doesn’t mean that we have to do something. We simply need to be be someone. We need to be people of faith who come to Mass to offer a pleasing and acceptable sacrifice to God the Father. I do not know my prayers in Spanish, but, when I attend a Mass celebrated using the Spanish language, I participate by silently praying in Latin. Regarding the Gloria, it is certainly fine if the choir sings it. Recall the Papal Midnight Mass. The Gloria and the Credo were sung by the Sistene Chapel Choir. Inasmuch as the notes and words were printed in the worship aids, the choir did most of the singing. Ditto for the responsorial psalm, although, even in my limited Italian, I was able to sing along during the broadcast.

You’ve obviously never been to Mass at St. Agnes or Our Lady of Mercy in Baton Rouge.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

That said, and I agree with you, some parts of the Mass are to be sung by ALL: the acclamations, the response to the Psalm and the dialog. If the choir messes with the Sanctus and the Agnus Dei, it’s messing with the parts of the Ordinary of the Mass that properly belong to the People – and that’s not right.

And there is a lot of messing around Christmas and Easter.

The Gloria, OTOH, is quite properly done by the choir alone (it’s one of the options in the GIRM) so I don’t have a problem with them doing something new that only they can sing. Interestingly, the 4 hymn sandwich can be done by choir alone. The only hymn that must be communal is the one after Communion if the parish does one at that time.

My parish has this so backward.

 

[mizznicole]

I’ve enjoyed reading all your responses.

True, “active participation” does not mean being an “activist” at mass.

However, I find it ironic that the impulse to bring things down to the people’s level has resulted in the people not being able to participate. Along the lines of Ratzinger’s observation that abandoning ad orientem actually enforces clericalism–since now we are looking at the priest and watching *him *do the work, rather than allowing the mystery of God doing the work.

I also think some of these new forms of music destroy active participation rightly defined. Example: last Sunday at our new parish. The children’s choir was singing “Do you see what I see” – full on with drums – during communion. It was pretty obnoxious. The kids were off key. But because it’s kids, well, everyone thinks it’s cute. So at the end the “audience” breaks into applause. DURING COMMUNION. It was awful. So disrespectful. Unfortunately this kind of thing happens a lot with this particular music director. He has his own “ministry” and does concerts all around town. The line between his concerts and the holy mass has been blurred.

 

[Brendan]

And, post-V II many are present only physically.

They are participating vocally only, saying assigned responses only. Like pre-conciliar altar boys.

The really funny one is when the Reading for the day includes 2 Cor 13:14 and the lector gets to the part "May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all

And half of the congregation responds with “And Also with You”; smack in the middle of the Reading

How is THAT for active participation

 

[Sarabande]

I suppose active participation is in the eye of the beholder. It may be a TV generation thing, but people now seem to seek entertainment.

I really don’t think it’s generational. It’s more of a change in culture and way of thinking. I’ve known people old enough to be grandparents all the way to young people complain about how the mass wasn’t “entertaining” enough. For many of them, they don’t know how to keep their attention and if it is too much work for them to focus, they won’t try.

Music no one can join in singing has become the rage, not that many try to sing anyway.

Actually, until very recent history, most of the liturgical music of the mass were only meant for the musicians to play or sing. The congregation didn’t take part in most of the music. It was meant to inspire the listening congregation spiritually and to give glory to the Lord. It has never been the rage - it actually just has always been.

I think the real problem with this newer music heard in some of these parishes today, is that it is being marketed as for the people in the pews, feeding into this idea of “active participation”. In reality, it isn’t for the congregation. Some of it, rhythmically-speaking as well as melodically sometimes, is very difficult for a non-musician to handle. On top of it, many times the rendering of this music is not done very well or the composition is subpar to secular contemporary music written in the same style.

I have come to believe a sizable percentage of people go to watch Mass because they most certainly are doing nothing else at church.

Well, I don’t know how true that is, as we can’t really know for sure unless we ask every single one of those people. A person doesn’t need to be singing or saying the responses in an audible way to be actively participating. That said, I always think it’s strange when you are at a mass and the entire church is silent during the responses to the priest. I feel like the lone speaker in the congregation sometimes.

I will note that I am no fan of contemporary Christian music and P&W for various reasons. My number one reason is that I do not think it is appropriate for the liturgy. Although it is true that there are musicians/directors out there in the classical realm, as well as the contemporary realm who do give the word “perform” during the liturgy a bad name, there are many in the middle who are trying to do their best with the liturgical music. They take it very seriously and many of us get stressed out when making selections. They also work to ensure that they are not being viewed as “performing”, but as “rendering” the music.

Both sides get the critiques. Many times for the classical musicians like myself, if we do it very well, we get blasted because we render the music “too well”. People are so used to hearing that music done so poorly that for some they think a musician is showing off when they play or sing it well. (I’ve heard people complain about choirs singing Palestrina because it sounded too good. ) For the contemporary musicians, their genre can sometimes lend itself too well to a secular style, so many times because of the way it has to be performed they are automatically labeled as ego-maniacs and rock performers. For most on both sides they are any of these - they are doing their jobs for God and for Church. And many times we feel as if we’re damned if we and damned if we don’t. There’s a reason why many older music directors become crotchedy, bitter and suspicious of others. I’m determined to not be that way, that’s why I will never want to be a music director again - even for kids which is what I used to do.

So, I think before any of us start assuming that these music directors and musicians are up there to show off and to massage their egos (In the past, I have been guilty of assuming this of people in the contemporary music genre myself until I started getting to know some of them - To me, their hearts are in the right place, they’re just not going in the right direction) think about what many of these musicians have to deal with in terms of pastors telling them what to do, the politics (and there are LOTS of politics in regards to church music in the parishes) and just trying to do their jobs.

God bless.