What's a Lutheran Service Like?

[Oldtimer_7]

In the ELCA, we use the Revised Standard Version in the service. As noted before, only the Lessons and Psalms may be read by the laity, while the Gospel is usually read by the presiding minister. We only have Eucharist if an ordained pastor, either Lutheran or one of the churches that is in full communion with us is present. If there is a lay service, then the lay minister will give a sermon, and it is generally based on the Gospel reading of the day.

 

[IowaJay]

Is there a move within Lutherans, similar to the Anglicans, to be in full communion with the Bishop of Rome?

There have been many high profile Lutheran converts to Catholicism over the past 20 years, but at this point, there is nothing in Lutheranism comparable to the groups of Anglicans who petitioned Rome ( which led to Anglicanorum Coetibus).

However, I think Anglicanorum Coetibus is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of a new ecumenical movement. The modern ecumenical movement which started at the time of Vatican II, which sought corporate reunion between Rome and the main Protestant denominations, has run its course. The dialogue continues, but a full unification between the Anglican Communion and Rome, or the Lutheran World Federation and Rome, is extremely unlikely. So, I think Rome is more likely to start engaging in separate dialogues with subgroups of friendly Protestants.

 

[Oldtimer_7]

I meant NEW Revised Standard Version. I just got an RSV and an ASV to add to my collection and the number of different translations is beginning to make my head spin.

 

[lutherlic]

Is there a move within Lutherans, similar to the Anglicans, to be in full communion with the Bishop of Rome?

Not in general. I always hold out hope for LCMS Lutherans but the ELCA continues to move further away from us making reunification less possible (IMHO).

One interesting, but very small group, is the ALCC Lutherans. Check their website for info.

 

[WorkerPriest]

It’s probably worth noting, and perhaps an Anglican brother or sister could add ellucidation, that Lutherans and Anglicans have some differences in their basic construct. Catholic minded Lutherans and Anglicans sure look, act, and believe very similarly, but there’s a fundamental difference at their point of origin.

Lutherans began as a confessing movement within the Church Catholic. The Augsburg Confession very intentionally tried to present the pastors and bishops of Germany as catholic Christians within the broad tapestry of Biblical and Patristic thought down through the ages. The remainder of the Book of Concord spends it’s time expounding upon the Three great Creeds and Augsburg, often spending more time defending against various corruptions of the other Reformation streams which emerged after them than with contentions regarding Rome. Because of this, Lutherans emerged early on as a confessing movement… which meant they became bound by the Book of Concord almost definitionally, as by the canons of a local Germanic council that took 60 years or so to close.

I don’t know if we’ll see a Lutheran corollary to the Anglican order within the Roman communion… but I think it is possible that we’ll see English speaking Lutherans petitioning to enter the Anglican order. For Lutherans, the question must remain before us, whether the heart of our Reformation confession is accomplished within the Church Catholic, or if the need to remain divided over our Confession persists. Obviously, various Lutherans or greater and lesser rank, have answered that question differently.

But, as a Lutheran, I will confess that with the ELCA abandoning catholic teaching and morality, and the LCMS becoming ever more infected by Pentecostalism (the Schwarmer, or Enthusiasts, condemned by the Lutheran Confessions) and Calvinism (iconoclasts, anti-liturgists, and disparagers of the Holy Sacraments, also condemned in the Lutheran Confessions) I can envision a day not long hence where it is more acceptable to be faithful to the catholic truth of the Augsburg Confession under the guardianship of the Pope, than anywhere else in Christendom.

Grace and peace.

Not in general. I always hold out hope for LCMS Lutherans but the ELCA continues to move further away from us making reunification less possible (IMHO).

One interesting, but very small group, is the ALCC Lutherans. Check their website for info.

 

[JonNC]

JonNC, if there was ever a case of the mountain straining and bringing forth a mouse, this was it. In the second article, “His only Son” is changed to “God’s only Son.” Then “He was conceived by power of the Holy Spirit” was changed to “who was conceived by the Holy Spirit.” The following "and’ is dropped and “He suffered under Pontius Pilate” is made a clause in the article instead of a sentence. “On the third day” to “living and the dead” is all made into one sentence.

Oh, goodness. My dad, who was an LCA/ELCA pastor is spinning in his grave.

This effort occupied a group of theologians for several years. Good thing they did not tackle the Athanasian Creed. It might not be finished until the week after the Second Coming.

lol. Seems to me the original writers did a pretty good job without their help. But we in the LCMS have no room to talk. Do you remember how the old SBH changed “holy, catholic Church”, to “holy christian Church”. Guilty here, with the same footnote. Just silliness.

Jon

Jon

 

[HAnne]

Did you stop in the Lord’s Prayer after the seventh petition? One of my wife’s cousins is Catholic and when I went to Mass with him he nudged me with his elbow to remind me to stop there. He is a fourth degree black belt and was liaison with Korean Special Forces in Vietnam. His “nudges” carry a bit of authority. I think the note requesting that the finder of my ribs return them is still up at the church.

ROFLOL - I have to laugh. I’m the daughter and granddaughter of Catholics who was raised Protestant. I remember going to a Mass when I was about 8 to “appease Grandma” and being “nudged” by my Dad (a SWAT police officer) during the Lord’s Prayer at the “stop” and falling over because he elbowed me in the head.

 

[JonNC]

Is there a move within Lutherans, similar to the Anglicans, to be in full communion with the Bishop of Rome?

I think the answers you’ve received are pretty accurate. There are groups within Lutheranism, such as the ALCC (Anglo-Lutheran Catholic Church), but they are by no means large.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

It’s probably worth noting, and perhaps an Anglican brother or sister could add ellucidation, that Lutherans and Anglicans have some differences in their basic construct. Catholic minded Lutherans and Anglicans sure look, act, and believe very similarly, but there’s a fundamental difference at their point of origin.

Lutherans began as a confessing movement within the Church Catholic. The Augsburg Confession very intentionally tried to present the pastors and bishops of Germany as catholic Christians within the broad tapestry of Biblical and Patristic thought down through the ages. The remainder of the Book of Concord spends it’s time expounding upon the Three great Creeds and Augsburg, often spending more time defending against various corruptions of the other Reformation streams which emerged after them than with contentions regarding Rome. Because of this, Lutherans emerged early on as a confessing movement… which meant they became bound by the Book of Concord almost definitionally, as by the canons of a local Germanic council that took 60 years or so to close.

I don’t know if we’ll see a Lutheran corollary to the Anglican order within the Roman communion… but I think it is possible that we’ll see English speaking Lutherans petitioning to enter the Anglican order. For Lutherans, the question must remain before us, whether the heart of our Reformation confession is accomplished within the Church Catholic, or if the need to remain divided over our Confession persists. Obviously, various Lutherans or greater and lesser rank, have answered that question differently.

But, as a Lutheran, I will confess that with the ELCA abandoning catholic teaching and morality, and the LCMS becoming ever more infected by Pentecostalism (the Schwarmer, or Enthusiasts, condemned by the Lutheran Confessions) and Calvinism (iconoclasts, anti-liturgists, and disparagers of the Holy Sacraments, also condemned in the Lutheran Confessions) I can envision a day not long hence where it is more acceptable to be faithful to the catholic truth of the Augsburg Confession under the guardianship of the Pope, than anywhere else in Christendom.

Grace and peace.

There is little here to argue with. One must wonder if Pope Benedict XVI, who probably understands Lutheranism better than perahps any pope since the Reformation, were to proclaim the Augsburg Confession a confession of the catholic faith within, as you stated, “the broad tapestry of Biblical and Patristic thought down through the ages” how many of us would celebrate the fullfillment of the Reformation in the Catholic Church, as the reformers had hoped for.

Jon

 

[SnakeMauler]

Do Lutherans have a sacrament of confession?

 

[Oldtimer_7]

Confession is not a sacrament in the Lutheran Church, but is done as part of the service. In the ELCA, we also have an occasional service that may be done individually if someone is troubled and wants to confess to a particular matter. I don’t know if it would be considered legally as the same as Catholic confession. I think on a pastoral level, the seal of confession might not apply if there were the imminent danger to self or others.

 

[IowaJay]

Confession is not a sacrament in the Lutheran Church, but is done as part of the service. In the ELCA, we also have an occasional service that may be done individually if someone is troubled and wants to confess to a particular matter. I don’t know if it would be considered legally as the same as Catholic confession. I think on a pastoral level, the seal of confession might not apply if there were the imminent danger to self or others.

There are places in the confessions where it is counted as one of the sacraments.

 

[WorkerPriest]

On a strict reading of the Confessions, particularly the Apology of the Augsburg Confession, and the obvious inference made in the Small Catechism, many Lutherans consider Confession and Absolution a Sacrament. Of course, others would rather call it a “sacramental rite,” but heaven help me for failing to grasp the significance of that hair splitting.

While we in the LCMS also practice a form of corporate Confession/Absolution as part of the Divine Service, Private Confession is also retained, and Lutheran pastors are sworn to guard the privacy of the confessional against all incursions. We may NEVER reveal the sins confessed to us under the seal. Ever. No exceptions.

Grace and peace.

Confession is not a sacrament in the Lutheran Church, but is done as part of the service. In the ELCA, we also have an occasional service that may be done individually if someone is troubled and wants to confess to a particular matter. I don’t know if it would be considered legally as the same as Catholic confession. I think on a pastoral level, the seal of confession might not apply if there were the imminent danger to self or others.

 

[JonNC]

Confession is not a sacrament in the Lutheran Church, but is done as part of the service. In the ELCA, we also have an occasional service that may be done individually if someone is troubled and wants to confess to a particular matter. I don’t know if it would be considered legally as the same as Catholic confession. I think on a pastoral level, the seal of confession might not apply if there were the imminent danger to self or others.

When I was LCA/ELCA, I never met a pastor who would have broken the seal of the confessional.

Jon

 

[Jennifer_G]

I was raised Lutheran(ELCA), but the last one I remember was my German great-grandmother’s funeral, and my great-uncle’s funeral. (My German grandmother had a masonic service at the funeral home (that was a little… odd… not to mention awkward when they said, “Let us pray… Our Father…” and said something completely different.) , and the rest of the Germans in my family were cremated). In my old church, they had the option to have an open or closed casket at the start of the service. Ones with cremations I think were done a little difference - a memorial service rather than a ‘full’ service. Although, I don’t remember having communion during the funeral.