What's more important?

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garysibio

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I don’t have any problem with anything the Catholic Church teaches. I believe it all. However, I’m starting to wonder just how important that is. I know that Jesus is the truth and the truth will set you free. Far be it from me to deny the importance of the truth, any truth.

Then I go to Mass and see people who seem to be more cultural Catholics than disciples of Jesus. I was an Evangelical for a while and returned to Catholicism because I became convinced of the truth of its teachings. However, I miss the zeal I saw in the Evangelical churches. Jesus seems much more important to them than He does to the average Catholic. (I am not saying that there are no Catholics who are living their lives according to their faith but they seem to be a small minority.)

What does it matter if we are doctrinally correct if our hearts are not right?

Gary
 
What is most important is your immortal soul. Do not worry about how others act (or appear to act), we cannot read hearts. But you know what your own motivation is and what your learning has taught you. For your own welfare, do what you need to do (Confession, RCIA, etc.) to come back in communion with the Church.

Much Catholic devotion is played out quietly–rosaries, adoration, reading the Liturgy of the Hours, etc. Someone who appears distracted at Sunday Mass, may attend a lunchtime Mass near work, stop for a Holy Hour at a different parish, say regular prayers for vocations, many things that aren’t as obvious as the singing and loud praise at an Evangelical Christian service. We need to look at our fellow parishioners with charitable eyes and always remember to pray for them.
 
Sr_Sally said:
What is most important is your immortal soul. Do not worry about how others act (or appear to act), we cannot read hearts. But you know what your own motivation is and what your learning has taught you. For your own welfare, do what you need to do (Confession, RCIA, etc.) to come back in communion with the Church.

Much Catholic devotion is played out quietly–rosaries, adoration, reading the Liturgy of the Hours, etc. Someone who appears distracted at Sunday Mass, may attend a lunchtime Mass near work, stop for a Holy Hour at a different parish, say regular prayers for vocations, many things that aren’t as obvious as the singing and loud praise at an Evangelical Christian service. We need to look at our fellow parishioners with charitable eyes and always remember to pray for them.
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I think I may have given the wrong impression. I haven’t left the Church at all. I just see a lot of talk here about being doctrinally correct - and I don’t deny the importance of the truth - I just wonder if we are rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Gary
 
You are hitting one of my “nails” on the head, with this thread, to wit, this. People take a journey of faith to get into the Catholic Church, and are they disallusioned with what they find? This may be part of the question here.

Well, the Bible shows in the OT that God gave people a lot of options for inadvertant sins, namely, the various sacrifices for sin - the burn offering, the pascal offering,the Day of Atonement, etc. Obviously, the chosen people weren’t perfect, were they?

And, even when they broke the covenant, in the incident of the golden calf, through the mediation of Moses, God graciously renewed the covenant, etc.

I use these examples to clarify the issue outside of the ordinary and modern Catholic context. When Moses became discouraged with self-pity, God did not let him off the hook, but authorized him to install 70 others to help him administer the nation. Why? well, because it was needed for all the various problems, especially complaining, that was going on, no?

My mom remembers Tammy Fay Baker, a Christian evangelical, as saying once, people think their own sins are better than other people’s sins. I think we all need to recall our royal priesthood and our mission to bring others to Christ.

Historically, a lot of women have abandoned the religious orders which were dedicated to teaching our children to live the faith. Hence, we have had a crisis of catechesis (the word the Church uses for evangelization) for decades.So, Sunday morning Mass is not always a pretty picture. Even many priests and bishops in the US are confused. Some say that there are two Catholic Churches in the US right now.

If you are not distracted by the priest varying from the proper order of the Mass, then it should be relatively easy to worship as you know you ought.

When God was preparing Moses and the people to receive the covenant at Sinai, He told them to prepare for three days, and wash themselves and their clothes for the event. Three days of preparation suggests that we all should prepare for the Sunday Mass, even if everybody doesn’t. Everyone is not intellectually, socially, religiously, and morally prepared equally for the Mysteries of the Mass on Sunday.

Your zeal will be an inspiration for others, even if you don’t appreciate it at the time or get any recognition for it. The Mass is not just a ritual, it is deeply inspiring for many, many people. The OT provides prooftexts that people sin without being aware of it. Same now as it was then. Let’s be priestly people, healers, not judges.

As a postscript, suspend your judgment on zeal in others. God isn’t finished with them. The Shema, Deut 6:4ff says that the people should put the commandments of God ON their hearts. The goal is that if they do that enough, the commandments will eventually get IN their hearts. This is an insight from Jewish commentaries and it reveals, I believe, how God works.
 
I’m curious as to what signs folks see that demonstrates that some people may be more or less devout than others.

I’m an usher both at my home parish and at the National Shrine. I’ve pretty much seen a full range of very reverent to almost irreverent. BUT for the vast majority I can’t tell whether folks are one way or the other.

I can’t really tell what is in anyones heart. But some of the more obvious things that I sometimes see, is folks improperly dressed, shorts, sandals and t-shirts I think are much too casual. IF you are heading out to the beach, change after mass.

You don’t have to come in coat and tie, but nice slacks and collared shirt would help. Shorts are okay on extremely hot days, but if its somewhat reasonable. Anyway, just my 2 cents.
 
wcknight said:
I’m curious as to what signs folks see that demonstrates that some people may be more or less devout than others.

I’m an usher both at my home parish and at the National Shrine. I’ve pretty much seen a full range of very reverent to almost irreverent. BUT for the vast majority I can’t tell whether folks are one way or the other.

I can’t really tell what is in anyones heart. But some of the more obvious things that I sometimes see, is folks improperly dressed, shorts, sandals and t-shirts I think are much too casual. IF you are heading out to the beach, change after mass.

You don’t have to come in coat and tie, but nice slacks and collared shirt would help. Shorts are okay on extremely hot days, but if its somewhat reasonable. Anyway, just my 2 cents.
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I’m not talking about inner devotion; there is no way I could know that about another. I’m talking about how what they believe affects their lives. Just to give one example: When I was an Evangelical, we went to two services on Sunday and a Wednesday night Bible study. From time to time there were other things as well. Catholics gripe if the homily goes over ten minutes.

Gary
 
garysibio said:
I don’t have any problem with anything the Catholic Church teaches. I believe it all. However, I’m starting to wonder just how important that is. I know that Jesus is the truth and the truth will set you free. Far be it from me to deny the importance of the truth, any truth.

Then I go to Mass and see people who seem to be more cultural Catholics than disciples of Jesus. I was an Evangelical for a while and returned to Catholicism because I became convinced of the truth of its teachings. However, I miss the zeal I saw in the Evangelical churches. Jesus seems much more important to them than He does to the average Catholic. (I am not saying that there are no Catholics who are living their lives according to their faith but they seem to be a small minority.)

What does it matter if we are doctrinally correct if our hearts are not right?

Gary
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It is great that you don’t have any problem with the Church’s teaching - that is a blessing.
Do you have faith in God that He has established the Church? - in fact, that is part of our Catholic teaching. If you do, then an average Catholic will be the good reason to pray for them and stay even closer with the Truth. Furthermore, pray for those fervent non-Catholics to come home. At the same time, we can apply the same zeal of our non-Catholic brother/sister to our faith in the guidance of the Holy Spirit so that we may follow the Truth.
 
I suppose Catholics as a group are not as sociable as they could or should be. Except for maybe the parish bingo games, most are lucky to even attend mass every week. Although that has changed a bit in the last decade or so,

I’d be more concerned with how they lead their lives, in prayer and abiding by Christ’s request to love one another. IF spending time in Church is the measure of goodness then maybe we should work on that. But I think how we treat one another and how charible we are to everyone else is the more important measure. Most Catholics I know are pretty good at that so I 'm not too concerned about this.
 
Crumpy said:
You are hitting one of my “nails” on the head, with this thread, to wit, this. People take a journey of faith to get into the Catholic Church, and are they disallusioned with what they find? This may be part of the question here.
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I was very disillusioned upon finally joining the church. I was protestant until I was 15. I thought the church was to give us fellowship to strengthen our walk with Christ in addition to helping us fulfill our privilege of being able to worship Our Lord.
I was given a sponsor that I never spoke to during the RCIA process, nor after. I still, to this day have not made a single friend in the parish despite having had brief conversations with people. Catholics, in my experience, are not open at all. Mass attendance does seem to be a burden to many.

Despite my struggles, the church is the one true church. I believe that. No matter how others behave in church or toward me, I consider it a gift to be able to go.
 
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