What's the deal with exorcism?

[Upbeat_Dad]

As a Protestant who is in the process of converting to Catholicism, I have spent a great deal of time working to understand and accept Catholic teachings as distinct from various Protestant doctrines (e.g., sola scriptura, sola fide, etc.). While I have been successful in coming to grips with the Catholic teachings on these matters, along with other elements of the faith, one aspect of Catholicism still bothers me: exorcism.

I know that most people formulate their opinions about exorcism relative to what they see in movies and on television, which are perhaps the worst places to get information on something like this. I recently heard a radio interview, however, with the designated exorcist for the Archdiocese of New York who stated that the 1970s film “The Exorcist” was in fact a fairly accurate portrayal of real exorcism. This is where I have to get off the train.

I have to admit, this is a real problem for me. I have no problem accepting the existence of Satan and demons. Indeed, it’s hard to look at something like the Holocaust and not wonder if there truly wasn’t something demonic going on there; it wasn’t just people being cruel, it went much deeper than that. Evil is real, not just conceptual. I accept that. What I can’t accept is beds flying through the air, and little girls vomiting pea soup while their heads rotate 360 degrees. It all just seems to strain the limits of credibility.

There are matters of faith and matters of evidence, and it is a cardinal error to mistake one for the other. I can accept the Real Presence in the Eucharist because it is necessarily a matter of faith and therefore not approachable through scientific processes of observation, experimentation, and analysis. I can even accept the reality of Satan and evil as it plays out in our lives - again, the Holocaust is a good example here of the depth and reality of demonic evil. But when a priest claims that a Hollywood movie accurately portrays demonic possession, then that takes the matter outside the realm of faith and into the realm of evidence. Using scientific principles of observation, experimentation, and analysis, one should be able to readily account for all the physical phenomena. But never have I heard or seen any evidence of the kinds of phenomena that movie (and, by extension, the real-world priest) claims are true.

So, just as I am about to take the plunge and “swim the Tiber” as it were, I find myself battling with this question: are exorcisms really that dramatic? Does this really occur as Hollywood says it does? And, if that is the claim, how does an intelligent person come to grips with the Church’s teaching of this matter in a way that is intellectually honest? I’ve asked a shorter version of this question in the Ask an Apologist forum and, naturally, they wouldn’t touch it. So I’m sending it out to all of you.

 

[bpbasilphx]

Exorcism is a Greek word. It’s a calch of the Latin-rooted word “adjure.”

It’s simply the act of the Church commanding the Devil in the Name of Jesus to get the hell out! (And I’m not being profane here.)

A full-blown exorcism a la the movie is a VERY rare occurrence. Compare it to some kind of combination simultaneous open-heart surgery and brain transplant. Like most serious surgical procedures it requires considerable investigation as well as permission by the Bishop before it is done.

Don’t worry about it.

 

[praise_Jesus_1]

The movie the Exorcist was based off a real event… but they changed it to make it more hollywood esque.

I’d check out the CAF radio downloads. Just a couple weeks ago they interviewed Matt Baglio who wrote: The Rite: The Making of a Modern Exorcist.

I’ve ordered the book to learn more about exorcism. But Baglio met up with a priest who was sent by his Bishop to Rome to be trained as an exorcist. His basis for his book follows this priest through the process. Baglio was also present to witness about 20 exorcisms.

According to Baglio very very very very few cases require a solemn exorcism. Now what he mentioned was interesting is that in many cases people go to the exorcist after they have been to see a psychiatrist or psychologist. There are paranormal activities going on that can’t be explained and so the victims are sent to an exorcist.

So I’d check out that interview. It really puts some things into perspective.

God bless!

 

[Religio71]

The movie the Exorcist was based off a real event… but they changed it to make it more hollywood esque.

I’d check out the CAF radio downloads. Just a couple weeks ago they interviewed Matt Baglio who wrote: The Rite: The Making of a Modern Exorcist.

I’ve ordered the book to learn more about exorcism. But Baglio met up with a priest who was sent by his Bishop to Rome to be trained as an exorcist. His basis for his book follows this priest through the process. Baglio was also present to witness about 20 exorcisms.

According to Baglio very very very very few cases require a solemn exorcism. Now what he mentioned was interesting is that in many cases people go to the exorcist after they have been to see a psychiatrist or psychologist. There are paranormal activities going on that can’t be explained and so the victims are sent to an exorcist.

So I’d check out that interview. It really puts some things into perspective.

God bless!

YES, I would highly recommend “The Rite”. I read it. It follows an American priest as he goes to study in Rome to become a diocesan exorcist. You will see that exorcism is NOT about beds flying around the room and anything else that you may see in movies.

 

[Langdell]

… I have no problem accepting the existence of Satan and demons. Indeed, it’s hard to look at something like the Holocaust and not wonder if there truly wasn’t something demonic going on there; it wasn’t just people being cruel, it went much deeper than that. Evil is real, not just conceptual. I accept that. What I can’t accept is beds flying through the air, and little girls vomiting pea soup while their heads rotate 360 degrees. It all just seems to strain the limits of credibility. …

If you accept the existence of Satan and demons, then the possibility of demonic possession would seem to follow. And if demonic possessions are possible, then it’s not unreasonable to have formal ways of asking God to end a possession.

Also, when the priest said that The Exorcist was a pretty accurate portrayal of an exorcism, are you sure he didn’t mean an accurate portrayal of the ritual, as opposed to how the possessed person acts? Just a thought.
.

 

[Convert66]

I heard an interview on The World Over where the exorcist was describing the real thing versus the hollywood version and he said that it is always exaggerated in the movies. On the one hand there is the Blatty classic which is over the top cinematically, but spot-on ritual-wise. Most real exorcisms take many sessions over a sustained period. On the other is the Exorcism of Emily Rose, where she gets a strange sensation, has a strange experience and boom, she’s possessed. It doesn’t happen that way either. It’s usually a very slow and cumulative effort on the part of the demon(s) and a slow aquiescence of the will on the part of the possessed. It could take months or years.

As someone who has witnessed demonic activities up close I can vouch for the flying bed-style phenomena, and there is an account (probably more than just one) of a lady who was vexed by a sorcerer and indeed vomited almost continually despite having eaten very little for weeks. Usually, once psychological or psychiatric explanations are eliminated the real tell-tale sign of demonic activity is knowledge that isn’t commensurate with the victims age or education level (for example, a teenager understanding and responding in Latin or other languages or giving theological discourses to the priest, etc.).

The particular exorcist in this World Over interview said that he expects this type of thing to increase over the next several years, as it has already increased dramatically over the past century. His reasons were the general breakdown of the family; fatherless children and their exposure to supernatural entertainments in films, books and television that piques their curiosities.

There is a real phenomena of physical appearances being distorted, but not to the extent of Linda Blair in the movie, and certainly a 360 spin would kill the victim, which rarely happens and usually, if at all, it occurs through exhaustion or dehydration- related crashes. That’s why tyhere are usually medical personnel involved, as well as laity for both physical restraint and prayer support (often many laity are in prayer but in another location removed from the actual scene of the exorcism).

Most people do not have much to worry about. Obsessions are usually as far as demonic afflictions go, where we are battling with one particular sin that we just can’t seem to whip. Oppressions occur when the enemy haunts a place or a person, or inflicts terrors, or dreams or PK phenomena, which is usually associated with either a pre-existing invitation through dabbling or an opening in a particular place they move in to, which can lead to violence against the victims at times (I’ve experienced this, and it is not pleasant to say the least). Possession is when the cumulative effects wear down the will of the victim until the enemy is victorious over the individuals will, or breaks down the will to a point that the victim is nearly forced to assent to possession.

Most folks have little to fear, as I said, unless they really start treading on the enemy’s territory by living truly holy and victorious lives which do damage to the enemy in some way, or get drawn into dabbling with occult hooks like ouija boards, or other attempts to contact spirits.

All my best . . .

 

[Upbeat_Dad]

Oppressions occur when the enemy haunts a place or a person, or inflicts terrors, or dreams or PK phenomena, which is usually associated with either a pre-existing invitation through dabbling or an opening in a particular place they move in to, which can lead to violence against the victims at times (I’ve experienced this, and it is not pleasant to say the least).

What exactly did you experience?

 

[FCEGM]

As a Protestant who is in the process of converting to Catholicism, I have spent a great deal of time working to understand and accept Catholic teachings as distinct from various Protestant doctrines (e.g., sola scriptura, sola fide, etc.). While I have been successful in coming to grips with the Catholic teachings on these matters, along with other elements of the faith, one aspect of Catholicism still bothers me: exorcism.

I know that most people formulate their opinions about exorcism relative to what they see in movies and on television, which are perhaps the worst places to get information on something like this. I recently heard a radio interview, however, with the designated exorcist for the Archdiocese of New York who stated that the 1970s film “The Exorcist” was in fact a fairly accurate portrayal of real exorcism. This is where I have to get off the train.

I have to admit, this is a real problem for me. I have no problem accepting the existence of Satan and demons. Indeed, it’s hard to look at something like the Holocaust and not wonder if there truly wasn’t something demonic going on there; it wasn’t just people being cruel, it went much deeper than that. Evil is real, not just conceptual. I accept that. What I can’t accept is beds flying through the air, and little girls vomiting pea soup while their heads rotate 360 degrees. It all just seems to strain the limits of credibility.

There are matters of faith and matters of evidence, and it is a cardinal error to mistake one for the other. I can accept the Real Presence in the Eucharist because it is necessarily a matter of faith and therefore not approachable through scientific processes of observation, experimentation, and analysis. I can even accept the reality of Satan and evil as it plays out in our lives - again, the Holocaust is a good example here of the depth and reality of demonic evil. But when a priest claims that a Hollywood movie accurately portrays demonic possession, then that takes the matter outside the realm of faith and into the realm of evidence. Using scientific principles of observation, experimentation, and analysis, one should be able to readily account for all the physical phenomena. But never have I heard or seen any evidence of the kinds of phenomena that movie (and, by extension, the real-world priest) claims are true.

So, just as I am about to take the plunge and “swim the Tiber” as it were, I find myself battling with this question: are exorcisms really that dramatic? Does this really occur as Hollywood says it does? And, if that is the claim, how does an intelligent person come to grips with the Church’s teaching of this matter in a way that is intellectually honest? I’ve asked a shorter version of this question in the Ask an Apologist forum and, naturally, they wouldn’t touch it. So I’m sending it out to all of you.

I just posted these links in another thread; they should be helpful to you. God bless you on your journey home!

ignatiusinsight.com/features/framorth_excerpt1_aug04.asp

freerepublic.com/focus/religion/1260364/posts

speroforum.com/a/2879/Vatican-exorcist-Amorth-speaks-on-Satans-smoke

christendom-awake.org/pages/calkins/calkins-amorth.html

 

[Convert66]

What exactly did you experience?

Which time? I’d honestly rather PM you with the details. It’s not a subject that most people think about seriously (as you are here) and it can become a subject for derision, which I’d rather avoid. Suffice to say here, that it began early in my life through no fault of my own, but it did however pique my own curiosity enough that it led me to dabbling in things that are better left alone.

All my best . . .

 

[Ridgerunner]

As a Protestant who is in the process of converting to Catholicism, I have spent a great deal of time working to understand and accept Catholic teachings as distinct from various Protestant doctrines (e.g., sola scriptura, sola fide, etc.). While I have been successful in coming to grips with the Catholic teachings on these matters, along with other elements of the faith, one aspect of Catholicism still bothers me: exorcism.

I have to admit, this is a real problem for me.

(Sorry for shortening your post, but I had to.)

I don’t know exactly what the priest you mentioned said or intended to convey, so I’ll just say what I know myself.

Long, long before the novel was written or the movie was produced, I was good friends with the nephew of the priest who performed the exorcism upon which the novel and movie were based. We were both in college at the time. He knew a great deal about it, and after a substantial amount of prodding by others from St. Louis (where it occurred) who knew at least something of it, he told us quite a bit.

The movie was massively inaccurate in detail. The real subject was a boy, not a girl, for one example. There was no head turning completely around. But notwithstanding that the physical stuff was overplayed in the movie (though not totally), the real story was, if anything, even more horrific in a spiritual sense. It’s very hard to express how that was exactly, and it has been a long time since I heard it, but in the real event, the demon(s) was (were) even more personally threatening than the movie depicted. There was no question that one was in the presence of an absolutely overwhelming, immensely knowledgeable and intellectually powerful being of absolute, total, unimaginable evil, which no human being could withstand on his own. But the serious threats and assaults were not physical, but spiritual.

At the same time, the presence of Jesus became quite evident at the very end, and it was Jesus, not the exorcist, who cast the demon out, and it was obvious. As I recall, the movie and novel were not clear as to that.

Later on, I happened to be at a retreat. To my surprise, one of the priests in residence at the retreat house was the very priest who performed the exorcism; the uncle of my friend. The retreat master for our retreat told us something about the experience as a way of explaining the exorcist himself, who had a small role in the retreat. The retreat master explained that the exorcist was never the same afterward; that he was very kind and gentle, but at the same time otherworldly; no longer really quite part of this world, though entirely sane. He was quite happy in a spiritual sense, but burdened by a knowledge of ultimates that few of us ever have, and fewer still should ever have. He was directly assaulted, mentally, by the demon, and made to see and grasp things much more awful than the physical happenings in the movie. The priest did, indeed, struggle to maintain himself as a mere instrument, not as a direct participant. Still, the demon did confront him in his mind, directly, but apparently only to the degree that the exorcist could (barely) stand.

Upon reading “Lord of the Rings” I thought about that exorcist when reading about how Frodo became after the ring was destroyed. I wondered whether perhaps Tolkien had somehow known an exorcist, or known his story.

I do know this. After hearing all that, I gained a new appreciation for the materiality; the “humanness”; the “filter” that prevents us from confronting the spiritual world directly, despite our inclinations to want to do that. I came to feel that, despite all our pretensions, we are really just children, unruly in a protective Father’s arms. I came to believe that we are utterly different from purely spiritual beings, not just in degree of attributes, and far, far more dependent on God’s intervening in our being through the Incarnation than we think we are.

I can’t say that I am a particularly perceptive person when it comes to the spiritual world. I don’t think I am at all. But I do know one thing. At his request, I went to a jail to talk to a man who had recently been arrested. I had done that many, many times, and thought I knew how to take it. I was a pretty cocky fellow, and, to tell the truth, rather enjoyed talking to criminals. In retrospect, it was oddly enjoyable to gain that “knowledge of good and evil” first hand. When the man walked into the conference room, I suddenly found that I couldn’t talk. I wasn’t physically afraid of him in the least. He was a small, older man and I was young and strong. But I had a clear sense of something coming into the room with him, and I could not tolerate it. It was as if I was in imminent danger of being assaulted in a way I cannot possibly describe, but which seemed overwhelming. I did not want to hear a single word uttered by the man, and knew somehow that I would be harmed, perhaps irreparably, if I did. I excused myself and left.

Later, I found out that he was an extraordinarily cruel man who had shaken and killed a child because it annoyed him with its crying, and forced its mother (his paramour) to bury the child in a shallow grave in the woods and claim the child had simply disappeared. He beat the woman savagely and told her she was now as guilty as he was; that she was ultimately responsible for it, really, and he would kill her and bury her too if she told. She really did think it was her fault for a time. Ultimately, though, she did tell.

Maybe it was just something in the man’s demeanor, though I had certainly met serious criminals before. I truly don’t know what caused my reaction. But I never had an experience like that before or since, and ultimately concluded that perhaps I was simply being allowed a “reminder” by God; something instructive about evil, perhaps as a way of strengthening my resolve never to presume that I could confront evil directly, or with my own strength. Later on, indeed, I did have occasion to be invited to become involved in a matter involving a satanist who had committed murder. I declined, and (it’s hard to describe this) put myself on the other side of Jesus from it. But it would take too long to tell that tale. I have thought that perhaps that was the threat for which I had been “inoculated”.

I hope the above does not make you even more doubtful about exorcism. I pretend to no expertise on the subject. I only offer what I know. I’ll tell you, too, that I am a very worldly experienced fellow, and am in no way inclined to accept fables. But I do think there is a lot more out there in the spiritual world than we can even guess at, and that we should not seek “doses” of it greater than those granted to us by God.

 

[CaptainPicard]

It’s funny, even in the times that I doubted the Church, I always liked that they performed exorcisms and took them seriously even when so many other communions didn’t. Afterall, it is very biblical and I’ve heard so many stories from people I know, histories and lives of the saints, and from very genuine sounding people who I’ve never met (like the post above me) that I can’t help but believe that demonic interaction and exorcism are real.

We’re Christians here. We already believe in the supernatural. Why not believe that a demon could fling a bed across the room so long as God permitted it to do so – even though it seems so strange? Afterall, we know that they can take control of swine and drive them off of a cliff.

I have a feeling that this wont be a real big deal for your conversion. It seems like if you already believe in the authority of the Pope, the Marian dogmas, the sacraments, etc, that this is a pretty small matter by comparison.

 

[beckycmarie]

So, just as I am about to take the plunge and “swim the Tiber” as it were, I find myself battling with this question: are exorcisms really that dramatic? Does this really occur as Hollywood says it does? And, if that is the claim, how does an intelligent person come to grips with the Church’s teaching of this matter in a way that is intellectually honest? I’ve asked a shorter version of this question in the Ask an Apologist forum and, naturally, they wouldn’t touch it. So I’m sending it out to all of you.

Remember that the Gospels are full of examples of exorcism. Jesus cast out a number of demons Himself, and He commanded His disciples to cast out demons in His name.

The few priests who write about exorcism (Fr. Gabriele Amorth and Fr. Jose Antonio Fortea are two) say for the most part exorcisms are uneventful. There have been some that were dramatic - the case that inspiried the movie The Exorcist and a case in Earling, Iowa in the 1920s are two that come to mind. Those dramatic cases are exceptionally rare. Solemn exorcisms are not something you are likely to ever encounter as a Catholic, but they do take place. The Church is obeying the command of Christ Himself to cast out demons each time an exorcism is performed.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Some exorcism resources:

MP3s
Fr. James LeBar interview. A very good interview as I recall, stories, characteristics…
Fr. Thomas Euteneuer interview. Another good speaker, characteristics…
Fr. Thomas Euteneuer, Exorcism Then And Now interview. Haven’t heard this one.
Matt Baglio, The Making of an Exorcist interview mentioned earlier in the thread. I wasn’t as in to this interview, he followed a priest around in training for exorcism, he gives a few stories, but not a lot of detail as I recall.
Another Fr. Euteneuer, An Evening with an Exorcist. He is always good.

There was an exorcism workshop in early 2008 lead by Fr. Jose Antonio Fortea, done in 4 sessions + Q&A. The first session was a talk by an escapee of the demonic, Moira Noonan. Here are those talks:

Moira Noonan, talks about her involvement with the occult and her rescue, many stories, interesting talk.
Fr. Fortea, talk 1 - all his talks are fascinating. He gives much detail as he familiarizes his audience with the nature of this subject.
Fr. Fortea, talk 2
Fr. Fortea, talk 3
Fr. Fortea, Q&A session

Books
Perhaps the most famous of the works is Fr. Gabriele Amorth’s: An Exorcist Tells His Story, which is chock full of stories, the nature of possession, degrees of, and even includes the text of the rites as I recall. He is Rome’s chief exorcist. He has a sequel which I have yet to read: An Exorcist, More Stories.

Fr. Fortea has a book, An Interview with an Exorcist, which is also on my to-read list.

Moira Noonan, mentioned above, her book: Ransomed from Darkness

And Matt Baglio’s The Rite: The Making of an Exorcist.

Article
Here is an article I’ve referenced before by the aforementioned Fr. Gabriele Amorth, The Real Exorcist. He gives different kinds of possession and some definitions. A good resource.