What's the point in being good?

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cteslak

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What’s the point in being good your whole life when a death row inmate can get to Heaven by repenting at the last minute? Does this have to do with the degree or closeness to God once you are in Heaven? Maybe I just didn’t get the point of the prodigal son story but it hardly seems fair. If I remember correctly, the father told the son that stayed home (after the son complained of unfairness) not to worry because everything the father had was his. But what the father had was reduced by what he gave to the other son prior to and after his escapade.
 
I few thoughts:

Recall the parable of the vineyard workers. Jesus’ message was that if you get what you agreed to, who are you to restrict the generosity of the giver.

He also asks us to love our enemies. How do we love? Would we not wish the best for the object of that love? What is the best? To be in heaven, right?

There are at least two lessons in the prodigal story. 1) Nothing will cut off God’s love for us. 2) We need to avoid jealosy and envy of this love for anyone else.

Remember too, that God’s ways are not our ways.
 
davidv said:

Recall the parable of the vineyard workers. Jesus’ message was that if you get what you agreed to, who are you to restrict the generosity of the giver.

cteslak says:

But wasn’t the original agreement for the son to each get half. The son who left already spent his half and now that he’s back, the father is using a portion of the remaining estate (all of which at this time should go to the son who stayed) to throw a huge party for the returning son. I suppose, and it doesn’t say, that after the party was over, the father did in fact withhold any more of his inheritance from the prodigal son.
 
We are each responsible for our own salvation. At our judgment, I don’t think we’re going to have relative judgment by the Lord. Either we did it right or we didn’t. But it’s each to his/her own at that point. If we’re really repentent, even of murder, then the Lord listens. But if our repentence was superficial, then so is our dedication to the the Lord. In that case, we’ve earned our fate, greater than or less than others–maybe–but our own nonetheless.
 
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cteslak:
What’s the point in being good your whole life when a death row inmate can get to Heaven by repenting at the last minute? Does this have to do with the degree or closeness to God once you are in Heaven? Maybe I just didn’t get the point of the prodigal son story but it hardly seems fair. If I remember correctly, the father told the son that stayed home (after the son complained of unfairness) not to worry because everything the father had was his. But what the father had was reduced by what he gave to the other son prior to and after his escapade.
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If you only knew it… doing God’s Will is your deepest desire. To be filled with God, to become His Love, is what you are made for, the realization of all that makes life, well, life.

You do not serve God because God needs you to accomplish something. You bring Him nothing! He is waiting to give you everything, to lavish joy upon you beyond telling! To know, love, and serve God is the pearl of great price, which you would sell everything for, if you only appreciated what it was and knew where to find it. Why on earth would you wait for that if you didn’t have to?

But you are right… this is something that neither the prodigal son nor his brother understood. The wealth of both sons was the love of their father, the love they could have had for each other, and neither of them knew it. If you have a family you are close to, you may know what I mean. When you see it that way, you will be sitting on the edge of your seat, hoping that every death row inmate will be turned toward God, so as to join you in the in exhaustible ocean of His Love.

As I have heard said: If that is not the Good News, don’t you realize that there can be no Good News?
 
What’s the point in being good? As Socrates would say, because it’s good! Being bad is bad. How simple is that?
 
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cteslak:
What’s the point in being good your whole life when a death row inmate can get to Heaven by repenting at the last minute? Does this have to do with the degree or closeness to God once you are in Heaven? Maybe I just didn’t get the point of the prodigal son story but it hardly seems fair. If I remember correctly, the father told the son that stayed home (after the son complained of unfairness) not to worry because everything the father had was his. But what the father had was reduced by what he gave to the other son prior to and after his escapade.
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I’m going to lump 4 biblical characters together simply because of my attitude toward them - the older brother in the story of the Prodigal Son, Cain, Ham (son of Noah), and Martha.

I always felt these people were chastised harshly
  1. The older brother for having been upset (he’d worked so hard for his father & did everything just right),
  2. Cain for his offering (it didn’t say he gave a bad offering),
  3. Ham for seeing his father naked (Noah was the one to have gotten drunk inEx9:20-27; why should Ham be punished for his father’s indiscretion?),
  4. Martha for working instead of listening (didn’t someone have to prepare the meal? Let’s give her credit for trying so hard to make everything just right for Jesus).
It always bothered me because it seemed as if the actions of these people didn’t count for much. Then God helped me realize it wasn’t the actions which God was displeased with but their attitudes. Maybe the older brother had lived a righteous life, but shouldn’t he have been glad that his brother was alive & well? Maybe Cain had given the best of his crops or at least not the worst, but was he just fulfilling an obligation? Yes, Noah was drunk and Ham did walk in on him inadvertantly; but what was his attitude when he called his brothers to see? And Martha, yes it takes alot to prepare a meal, but you can be simple or you can be extravagant?

One can be good all their life but do it grudginly; God is looking for a forgiving heart, a willing heart, a loving heart, and a listening heart not just an obedient one. These are attitudes which I have to work on maybe that’s why I empathize with these biblical characters.
 
Well, I guess the question would come down to, is the death row inmate’s repentence sincere? If it is just a gimmick to “get into heaven”, then God will judge his intention. Since you have no right to judge what is on a man’s heart, you just don’t know. Take the plank out of your own eye before you worry about the speck in your brother’s.
 
Racer X:
What’s the point in being good? As Socrates would say, because it’s good! Being bad is bad. How simple is that?
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Yes, but what Jesus taught goes far beyond what most people understand by that.You allow God to live in you, which will make good happen through you. He does this because He is Good, because He made life Good, and because He made you to have Life, and have it abundantly. It is not primarily about you, or what your personal understanding of good is. After all, the prodigal son thought he was choosing the good, choosing to really live and have fun, when he left home.

Most people don’t get that the son who stayed at home while his prodigal brother was away had been missing the boat, too. He was angry at his brother for leaving him with the work and jealous of the prodigal son because he thought the father’s love was something the sons should earn(!) Note that he thought that his father should appreciate him, and not the other way around. Yet the father does not berate him for his ingratitude. He was just as merciful to him as to his brother, and was just as ready to receive him in joy, love, and forgiveness. It is such a wonderful story.
 
If we strongly support a presidential candidate, do we care how long it takes someone to decide who they vote for as long as they vote for our candidate in the end? No. Although it may have been better if they supported us from the beginning, our love and joy for the candidate would take precedent, and we are happy to see them join in the good that comes from their decision.

Doesn’t necessarily apply to this election though… but you get the point.

Josh
 
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cteslak:
What’s the point in being good your whole life when a death row inmate can get to Heaven by repenting at the last minute?
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Well, for one, I’d like to err on the side of caution. If I die tomorrow, I’d like to know that I’ve been living a decent life, in case I don’t have the chance to repent. Additionally, “being good” is a result of love for God. If we love God, we will be good, because we wish to follow Him. Are you saying that it is better not to love God for our entire lives? Also, Heaven is the final reward, but it is not the only one. God blesses those who live good lives abundantly (though not always in the way we expect).
Does this have to do with the degree or closeness to God once you are in Heaven?
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Yes, actually. In Heaven, we are filled to our capacity for experiencing God’s grace. However, those who have sought earnestly to understand and grow closer to God will be able to experience that grace more fully. My favorite explanation of this (which I read on this forum, actually) is as follows:

The degree of our reception of God’s grace in Heaven is like the difference between a shot glass and a stein (this is how you know it’s a Catholic example 😃 ). A person who has not sought to expand his understanding and participation in God’s will on earth is like the shot glass. One who seeks to do God’s will and grow in closeness to Him is like the stein. When they reach Heaven, both will be filled with God’s grace, but the one who has remained closer to God will experience greater joy than the one who has not.
Maybe I just didn’t get the point of the prodigal son story but it hardly seems fair. If I remember correctly, the father told the son that stayed home (after the son complained of unfairness) not to worry because everything the father had was his. But what the father had was reduced by what he gave to the other son prior to and after his escapade.
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Don’t pay attention to the mathematical consequences of this story. Remember that the father is an allegory for God. God is infinite, and thus, what He gives to one of His children in no way detracts from the share of another.

Hope this helps!
 
I would suggest that being good is a lot more spiritually healthy than being bad. There will be more contentment with life and its twists. And by being good with the help of God’s grace you can achieve heaven.
 
I agree with Colossus. You can say I will do as I please then repent at the last second. But, what if the last second is too late. Do not gamble with salvation.

As posted earlier, you do not know the sincerity of the deathbed conversion. God does. We should convert early and often, always trying to remain close to God, so that if our death is sudden, we are not lost.

This is also where Pergatory is a good thing. He who leads a holy life has less pergation than one who does not. As far as heaven goes, I know that all will be joyous beyond human understanding, but some will be closer than others.
 
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buffalo:
I would suggest that being good is a lot more spiritually healthy than being bad. There will be more contentment with life and its twists. And by being good with the help of God’s grace you can achieve heaven.
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I agree. Your good works can also help others. We are called to evangelize… the words of St Francis come to mind “Preach the gospel at all times and when necessary use words” 👍

Pax et Bonum
 
Seeking Wisdom:
I’m going to lump 4 biblical characters together simply because of my attitude toward them - the older brother in the story of the Prodigal Son, Cain, Ham (son of Noah), and Martha.

I always felt these people were chastised harshly
  1. The older brother for having been upset (he’d worked so hard for his father & did everything just right),
  2. Cain for his offering (it didn’t say he gave a bad offering),
  3. Ham for seeing his father naked (Noah was the one to have gotten drunk inEx9:20-27; why should Ham be punished for his father’s indiscretion?),
  4. Martha for working instead of listening (didn’t someone have to prepare the meal? Let’s give her credit for trying so hard to make everything just right for Jesus).
It always bothered me because it seemed as if the actions of these people didn’t count for much. Then God helped me realize it wasn’t the actions which God was displeased with but their attitudes. Maybe the older brother had lived a righteous life, but shouldn’t he have been glad that his brother was alive & well? Maybe Cain had given the best of his crops or at least not the worst, but was he just fulfilling an obligation? Yes, Noah was drunk and Ham did walk in on him inadvertantly; but what was his attitude when he called his brothers to see? And Martha, yes it takes alot to prepare a meal, but you can be simple or you can be extravagant?

One can be good all their life but do it grudginly; God is looking for a forgiving heart, a willing heart, a loving heart, and a listening heart not just an obedient one. These are attitudes which I have to work on maybe that’s why I empathize with these biblical characters.
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This is a great and humble piece you have written. You are right… God is calling you to more than just “doing it right.” You’re a son as well as a brother or sister, not a wage-earner. It is a complete difference in attitude.
 
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cteslak:
What’s the point in being good your whole life when a death row inmate can get to Heaven by repenting at the last minute? Does this have to do with the degree or closeness to God once you are in Heaven? Maybe I just didn’t get the point of the prodigal son story but it hardly seems fair. If I remember correctly, the father told the son that stayed home (after the son complained of unfairness) not to worry because everything the father had was his. But what the father had was reduced by what he gave to the other son prior to and after his escapade.
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I think the question assumes that being good is difficult and not ‘fun.’ Jesus said he came to give us life, and have it more abundantly. Once we are saved, we are born-again and mature into what God wants us to be. Best of all, we develop a relationship with God through Christ. All this is what brings inner peace-- not sinful and selfish living.

Unfortunately, people equate true religion with Catholicism. The rules and rituals in Catholicism are distracting to a free spiritual relationship with God. It’s much better to get closer to God through the Scripture and studying/applying the saying of Jesus, rather than religious dogmas of denominations.

…Bernie
www.FreeGoodNews.com
 
<<Unfortunately, people equate true religion with Catholicism. The rules and rituals in Catholicism are distracting to a free spiritual relationship with God. It’s much better to get closer to God through the Scripture and studying/applying the saying of Jesus, rather than religious dogmas of denominations.>>

Say WHAT now?

Rules and rituals are DISTRACTING to a free spiritual relationship with God?

Let’s see. First, you would agree that the universe is an ORDERLY place, wouldn’t you? Things fit. Planets exist, stars, suns, galaxies, etc., and they’re not suddenly appearing and disappearing, changing colors, colliding with each other, etc. as a general rule. There are RULES to planetary motion and function.

And the earth. Well, it’s fairly orderly too. Every morning when we look to the east, there’s the sun. Every evening we look to the west as the sun sets. It isn’t 1000 degrees one day and -43 the next. And we have laws of physics, laws of motion. . .

And as for people, well, we’re pretty orderly too. Both as individuals and as societies, we tend to be fairly routine and basically inoffensive. . .but then again, we get the occasional malefactor, and so we have rules and laws to pretty much spell out what’s accepted and what’s not.

WITHIN the framework of the essential rules and regs, whether they are nature-made or man-made (and remembering that above all they are GOD-made), we have a pretty “free” way of living and interacting. But we cannot be free FROM rules. We’d be existing in total chaos.

And you do remember that God Himself gave US some rules–so it doesn’t look as though he’s the laissez-faire type.

The evangelists and the early Church leaders were right there, first generation, KNOWING JESUS PERSONALLY. . .and oh yes, they spoke of our INDIVIDUAL (I prefer that to “personal” with its undeniable evangelical Protestant connotation) relationship with God. They spoke of the freedom of our relationship with God–but, funny thing, that FREEDOM consisted in our SUBMISSION to God. And that meant to GOD’S RULES as well. None of this, “I personally love and honor you, God, but this rule on adultery keeps me from a free relationship with you AND this great looking gal/guy, so no offense; after all, I’m following the OTHER NINE rules, what’s the big deal?”

Don’t you see that the more you are in obedience to God the freer you are? And that the more you focus on YOUR PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP with God–to the exclusion of pesky rules, rituals, and regulations–the LESS free you are? Whose dictates are you following–God’s or yours?

BTW, Catholics read a LOT of scripture. I hope that you weren’t implying that we just bow and scrape and wear funny looking clothes and play with funny little beads and THAT is what you mean by Dogma or denominations. It’s not.

And to say or imply that the only way to have a “personal relationship” with God is to dump organized religion, especially Catholicism, is not only offensive to most religious people, but a practice which could very well imperil your immortal soul. As a fellow Christian, I must warn you, in the love of Christ, to be very careful that you aren’t throwing out the baby with the bathwater in your search for “the real Jesus”. How can you find Him when you’re only looking for Him on YOUR terms, instead of where He told us He’d be? I’m not saying that all Catholics, or ONLY Catholics, can find Jesus, but I AM saying that if you automatically exclude “the Catholic church” or “organized religion/ dogma/ doctrine” from your search, you’re kind of shutting the door in God’s face. If you’re sincere, you MAY still find him. . .but you’ll probably only do that when you’ve acknowledged the original error of dismissing the church in the first place.

In his peace and love.
 
Simply becuause it improves life for everyone…what good is a prisoner to society…

…plus we could die at any moment, why risk it

…God gives many great gifts why throw them away
 
**Your love for God is your treasure which you will share with God for all eternity. Love for God is accomplished through free from the will of God obedience to the will of God. Do not envy the person who gets to go to heaven without an abundance of the fruit of the Kingdom which is love for God. **

INT 1 JOHN 5:3

This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome.INT JOHN 14:15

(Jesus is speaking.)

"If you love me, you will obey what I command."

**NAB DEU 7:9 **

“Understand, then, that the LORD, your God, is God indeed, the faithful God who keeps his merciful covenant down to the thousandth generation toward those who love him and keep his commandments, but who repays with destruction the person who hates him; he does not dally with such a one, but makes him personally pay for it. You shall therefore carefully observe the commandments, the statutes and decrees which I enjoin on you today.”

NAB JOH 15:1

“I am the true vine, and my Father is the vine grower. He takes away every branch in me that does not bear fruit, and everyone that does he prunes so that it bears more fruit. You are already pruned because of the word that I spoke to you. Remain in me, as I remain in you. Just as a branch cannot bear fruit on its own unless it remains on the vine, so neither can you unless you remain in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever remains in me and I in him will bear much fruit, because without me you can do nothing. Anyone who does not remain in me will be thrown out like a branch and wither; people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will be burned. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you. By this is my Father glorified, that you bear much fruit and become my disciples. As the Father loves me, so I also love you. Remain in my love. If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and remain in his love. I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and your joy may be complete. This is my commandment: love one another as I love you. No one has greater love than this, to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. You are my friends if you do what I command you. I no longer call you slaves, because a slave does not know what his master is doing. I have called you friends, because I have told you everything I have heard from my Father. It was not you who chose me, but I who chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit that will remain, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name he may give you. This I command you: love one another.”

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
 
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