What's The Right Thing On Not Eating Meat First Fridays, Every Friday, I'm Confused!

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Br. Rich SFO:
That is correct it is required on Fridays during Lent. It is recomended on the other Fridays.
Thank you Brother Rich.
I had read Catechism 1438 differently but I have to say it was without reference to anyone so it wouldn’t be the first time I was wrong.
When it states the seasons and days of penance are Lent and each Friday I concluded (probably incorrectly) that means every Friday a penance MUST be undertaken, otherwise it would have said penance is required on the Fridays of Lent and recommended all other Fridays.
I read the second sentence in 1438 as giving the various recommended penances to choose from.
 
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LindaS:
. We are obliged to do some penetential act on all Fridays of the year.
It used to be a mortal sin if you did not abstain from meat on Fridays. Now you say the law has been changed and tht we have an obligation to do some penetential act on all Fridays of the year. Would this then mean that it is a mortal sin if you do not do a penentential act on a Friday?
 
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stanley123:
It used to be a mortal sin if you did not abstain from meat on Fridays. Now you say the law has been changed and tht we have an obligation to do some penetential act on all Fridays of the year. Would this then mean that it is a mortal sin if you do not do a penentential act on a Friday?
Its my understanding that it is a mortal sin (against the Third Commandment) if there is intentional failure to fast or abstain (do some penetential act) on appointed days.
 
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thistle:
Thank you Brother Rich.
I had read Catechism 1438 differently but I have to say it was without reference to anyone so it wouldn’t be the first time I was wrong.
When it states the seasons and days of penance are Lent and each Friday I concluded (probably incorrectly) that means every Friday a penance MUST be undertaken, otherwise it would have said penance is required on the Fridays of Lent and recommended all other Fridays.
I read the second sentence in 1438 as giving the various recommended penances to choose from.
That’s not what I trying to say.

The Church in what ever current document for the US Church you look at REQUIRES that on every Friday a penance MUST be undertaken. It does not specify what that penance is but does recommend abstinence from meat. It does specify that abstinence from meat IS REQUIRED for Fridays in Lent. In addition to this Fasting and abstinence from meat is REQUIRED on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

Is that worded clearer?
 
Br. Rich SFO:
That’s not what I trying to say.

The Church in what ever current document for the US Church you look at REQUIRES that on every Friday a penance MUST be undertaken. It does not specify what that penance is but does recommend abstinence from meat. It does specify that abstinence from meat IS REQUIRED for Fridays in Lent. In addition to this Fasting and abstinence from meat is REQUIRED on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

Is that worded clearer?
That’s clear. Its what I said in post #19.
 
This thread makes me chuckle. It is a perfect illustration of the confusion in the post-conciliar Church. Used to be, you knew not to eat meat on Fridays and that was that. Now, there’s double-speak, differing interpretations, and room for confusion.
 
Br. Rich SFO:
The Church in what ever current document for the US Church you look at REQUIRES that on every Friday a penance MUST be undertaken.
Is it a mortal sin if you do not do the penance?
It used tobe a mortal sin to eat meat on Fridays.
 
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stanley123:
Is it a mortal sin if you do not do the penance?
It used tobe a mortal sin to eat meat on Fridays.
Noone can say some particular act is a Mortal Sin. For no act in itself is Mortal. Certain acts can be objectively defined as Grievously Wrong Acts.

Any such act (and Wrong Acts that are not Grievous) would be a sin.

A mortal sin requires three things.
1 A Grievously Wrong Act
2 Full Knowledge
3 Full Concent

Do not hasten to judge the results of anothers Activity!

One cannot unknowning or accidentally commit a Mortal Sin.
 
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Evan:
Certain acts can be objectively defined as Grievously Wrong Acts.
.
Of courxe. Ok. To repeat the question using your terminology:
Is it objectively a Grievously Wrong Act if you do not do the penance?
It used to be objectively a Grievously Wrong Act to eat meat on Fridays.
 
Not quite, stanley.

Since Fridays are held in Christian tradition as remembrance days of Jesus’s dying on the cross (on GOOD Friday), pious remembrance practices of doing PENANCE arose, from the earliest Christians onward.

During much of history on the European continent and the British Isles, until the 19th and 20th centuries, MEAT was a LUXURY item. Most people were lucky if they ate wheat bread, oat bread, root vegetables, and fruits in season. If they lived near water, they fished. MEAT was rare. So, since it was a LUXURY, it was considered a penance to go “without it” on a day of penance.

If you say that “Catholics used to think eating meat on Friday was sinful”, what do you say about the Methodists and the Mormons? What do you say about Jews who keep kosher? What do you say of Muslims who fast during Ramadan? All those people refrain from perfectly normal activities (eating food) for a REASON. . .it is not the EATING which is sinful, but the eating at a particular time when one CHOOSES to exercise penance. . .to offer up to God a sacrifice, in choosing NOT to eat a food which one likes, or choosing not to eat during the day (Muslims) or choosing to eat certain foods which one feels God allows, and not to eat others He does not (Jews).

But, stanley, meat, though still $$, is not a luxury. And lots of people are vegatarians, or trying to limit meat consumption. In order to make people actually THINK about penance and (in the case of those who already didn’t eat meat anyway) give them an opportunity to do a real penance, we lucky Catholics may observe penance and sacrifice and give honor and glory to God in many ways. Some of us may still choose to have a meatless Friday (those who really like meat DO sacrifice in not having it), and others may choose to say extra prayers, to go to Friday Eucharistic Adoration, to work in a soup kitchen, or to give up other favored foods, or activities.

It is not the food or the activity that is sinful, if indulged in, but the DISOBEDIENCE behind the indulging in.

So stanley, if you don’t want to do a penance, if you don’t believe you have to, you aren’t sinning.

But if you have tradition dating back 2000 years, a love and respect for God, an understanding of what sacrifice and penance means, and a wish to serve, to give up something freely as a way to thank God for HIS gifts and as a small token of our love, as a child might take a cookie given to him by his father and seek to give it to the father in return–a loving gesture which is certainly appreciated by the father even if he does not need the cookie–then you MIGHT be able to grasp what “Friday penance” should mean to Catholics. I wish you luck. God bless.
 
Tantum ergo:
Since Fridays are held in Christian tradition as remembrance days of Jesus’s dying on the cross (on GOOD Friday), pious remembrance practices of doing PENANCE arose, from the earliest Christians onward…
What you say is true of course, but doesn’t really answer my particular question yes or no:
Before Vatican II, it used to be a mortal sin for R Catholics to eat meat on Friday. Now the discipline has changed. And R Catholics are requested to do penance.
Is it still a sin, mortal or venial, for a R. Catholic in the USA not to do a penance on Friday.
Also, what is the rule on Good Friday. Is it a mortal sin to eat meat on Good Friday of Lent?
 
Scotty PGH:
This thread makes me chuckle. It is a perfect illustration of the confusion in the post-conciliar Church. Used to be, you knew not to eat meat on Fridays and that was that. Now, there’s double-speak, differing interpretations, and room for confusion.
Tes. You are right.

The confusion stems from the fact that instead of being treated like children (told exactly what to do), we are now treated as adults; we are given a gudieline, and expected to make adult choices.

Being an adult - having to make choices - for some, is a scary proposition when it comes to their immortal souls. They would much rather that Papa, or Mama, tell them exactly what they have to do; then they “know” that if they do just that, they’ll get their reward.

A careful reading of the Gospels will show a different picture. however, one that defines faithfulness as something more than simply following the rules.

Darn those bishops, anyway!
 
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stanley123:
What you say is true of course, but doesn’t really answer my particular question yes or no:
Before Vatican II, it used to be a mortal sin for R Catholics to eat meat on Friday. Now the discipline has changed. And R Catholics are requested to do penance.
Is it still a sin, mortal or venial, for a R. Catholic in the USA not to do a penance on Friday.
Also, what is the rule on Good Friday. Is it a mortal sin to eat meat on Good Friday of Lent?
A point of clarification. Prior to the change in the law, eating meat on Friady was not intrinsically wrong.

To be intrinsically wrong, the very act of eating meat would have to be intrinsically wrong.

It would have been an act of disobedience. We have a duty to obey those lawfully set up in authority over us; as Catholics, the hierarchy is lawfully set up over us and we have that duty of obedience.

However, to answer your question more specifically, I have not read the changes completely but I would presume that, while the specific of abstinence from meat outside of the Lenten period has been replaced with a specific requirement to do some form of penance on Friday, with the abstinence from meat as a highly reccomended form, the issue is still the obedience to lawful authority and the penalty could be presumed to have remained intact.

In other words, I would presume that a wilfull intent to do no penance would be a mortal sin.

The issue for most people will be in the wilfullness of the act; it is all to easy to forget that it is Friday, or that there is a duty attached to Friday.
 
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QDude:
His conclusion, if I recall correctly, is we are not obligated to do Friday penance although it is recommended.
Right. This is also what I thought is the case. In other words, there were really two changes here. Before Vatican II, it was a mortal sin (of disobedience) for a RC to eat meat on any Friday. After Vatican II, it was changed (at least in my locality) as follows:
  1. It was no longer an obligation to abstain from meat on each and every Friday of the year (with some exceptions for Lenten Fridays).
  2. Catholics were urged to do some substitute penance on Friday, instead of observing the previous law of abstinence, but this was not an obligation binding under pain of sin.
    That was what I thought I understood from the local priest, but let me know if you think it is different in your area.
 
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