What's the secret to belief?

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Please, someone tell me…

I’m a lifelong Catholic, but I’m beginning to suspect I don’t have any faith at all. I don’t equate merely being Catholic with real faith, and I certainly don’t think it’s any guarantee of salvation, but I would think that “doing” Catholic things or “being” Catholic in the sense of going through the motions would at least indicate a little faith. As it is, I see the universe as me–here, God–somewhere else.

You could answer just about every question on this board with “pray more,” and I suppose ultimately that’s what I’m going to have to do. But even when I “felt” something, it was still like a “presence,” or, I don’t know… Basically, I think I expected more.

I think I was told once to “just go through the motions” if I didn’t have any faith. I figured by doing so, it was an indication of at least embryonic faith, and it would grow. Well, I’ve discovered that when just going through the motions, I’m just as suceptible to temptation as I am the sentiments felt in an incense-filled bascilica. I could go either way. More often than not, I go the way of temptation because it seems somehow more…“real.” I don’t enjoy it, I just let myself fall because the effort it takes to keep the “imagination” of faith alive is weak.

To me, faith is fighting the good fight–I’m going to be teaching apologetics and CCD soon, and while I can get my mind around most arguments pro/con for Catholicism, I’d be an utter hypocrite if I were to try to talk about the love of God. The love of God? What is that? Who is he? Does he really intervene and concern himself with our little affairs? I don’t know. At the end of the day I think that WE must do what we can in our lives, and God is just there at the end to judge us. That is NOT a recipe for heart-breaking love in my book.

I guess I’m just asking–does everyone feel this way? Is faith merely the struggle, or is there a secret interior place that can’t be expressed with words? What do you people with faith “feel” day to day?
 
Perhaps you are undergoing a temptation right now. Or a spiritual dryness. Especially if you are doing work to defend the faith.I have read alot about saints that the enemy would taunt with these kind of thoughts.Do you have a spiritual director that you can talk to?God Bless
 
Hello, montanaman! I once lived in Montana, too, many years ago, in a little tiny town named Corvallis. Do you know where that is?

Anyway, I’m not sure there is an actual “secret” to belief, although to someone who doesn’t presently feel it it might seem so. For me, what keeps me believing is gratitude for my life, gratitude to God, Our Lord and Our Blessed Mother for my life and all the love that has been in it and continues to be in it.

When I become complacent, I earnestly try to remember all the blessings in my life because of my faith. For instance, my heart is healed each week in the Sacrament of Reconciliation and in Holy Communion. I feel the complete difference in my heart when I have actively participated in these Sacraments. It is simply remarkable! and participation in these Sacraments increases my belief and my faith.

Being a witness to how God works in other peoples’ lives also increases my faith. Being of service to others also increases my faith. When I see God’s love in other people I am convinced of my belief!

I don’t know if any of this helps but I pray for God’s love to fill your heart, dear friend in Christ!
 
Dear friend

Well hasn’t that old adversary got your head in a spin and attempting to harden your heart?!! You know there is God because not once in your post have you questioned the existence of God.

Dear friend look at the Cross and decide if Jesus is God and look at that Cross and there you see love, that is how you know God loves you because God was willing to take on humanity in the fullness of flesh and suffer in His humanity as a servant to humanity and ultimately out of love die, descend into hell and rise again to redeem and love humanity for all of eternity. If you were the only person alive on the earth God would have done that for you and for you alone. He created you unique and loves you as the only son unique as you are to Him, like any parent loves a son. He is saddened by your trails and sorrows and upholds you in them where you suffer He has already gone before you and suffers with you and He also shares in your joys and happiness, God desires your happiness. The ultimate happiness for the human soul is union with God.

You are right that God judges and rightly so as there is no justice other than God and His justice is not one of a fearsome judge that wishes to condemn, He is a judge of forgiveness and love, of mercy and hope.

You are right, we are fighting the good fight and it is against the draw to disbelieve and to sin and that draw comes from evil.

Continue in faith that the Risen Lord will uphold you and the Holy Spirit will inspire your heart. Fight the good fight, run the race, persevere and never lose sight of your eternal salvation that is only in Christ Jesus.

I will keep you in my prayers during your trial in faith and your lifelong journey in faith.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
Personally my faith fluctuates, but I think it is normal. All things change but God alone. I don’t think there is a secret. Fith is a grace given by God, and some have more of that grace than others. Try some reading.

Like the “why be catholic genre” and/or conversion stories. I know that the author Patrick Madrid has three books out about collections of stories of what motivated people to convert to Catholicism. Scott Hahn and David Curie have written books on that topic as well, with their own stories, but Hahn wors in particular is very condescending. Dorothy Day’s autobiography is very moving.

Writings from the saints help me much. I find great inspiration from Theresa of Avila, even she writes about problems with spiritual dryness and how she herself had problems motivating herself to pray. I found that so amazing to believe, that some one as inspirational as she admitted to being less than inspired herself at times.

Frances de Sales has a chapter on “spiritual dryness” that might be of great use for you.
 
Hello Montana Man.

I understand exactly where you are coming from.

Have you ever read Dostoyevski’s Brothers Karamazov? A very good book. In one scene, a young woman asks Father Zosima, a famous monk, your exact question. His response: Do as much as you can to help other people.

Satan would like you to focus as much on yourself as possible. The longer he can delay you by the side of the road (checking your oil, checking your coolant, rechecking your oil) the better, for him. What is your sentiment index today, how about your temptation gage? Forget about it.

I also understand what you mean about reality, and how faith requires a sustanance of imagination that seems to be unnecessasary… Start taking mental notes of when you feel this feeling of “reality” most strongly. I find that for me it comes when watching movies or watching TV, reading a magazine or a book… in other words, when I’m getting sold on a image.

Anyway, I wonder if I’ve helped. Feel free to email, I see a great similarity between your thought process and mine. Haha… I suspect that even as you read this, the mood you had when you first posted has passed, and perhaps you’re wondering why you even felt that way in the first place, or wondering if maybe you were exaggerating your feelings…
 
Hi montanaman,

[Start Sermon :rolleyes:]

I think it’s important not to confuse faith with… …well, the “feeling” of having faith. It seems to me that what you describe as “a secret interior place that can’t be expressed with words” is maybe not faith itself, but the consolation of faith. I guess what I’m trying to say is that it’s important to remember that faith isn’t primarily something you feel.

And this even more true about love. I think- because love (for us fallen humans, anyway) isn’t merely feeling attracted to someone or something- that some “going through the motions” simply a part of love. So, even when you feel that your heart or feelings aren’t in what you are doing, you are performing acts of love- I guess I think that “heart-breaking love” is in performing the loving actions not in the emotions that motivate or result from the actions.

[/End Sermon]
Is faith merely the struggle, or is there a secret interior place that can’t be expressed with words? What do you people with faith “feel” ?
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To actually answer your question: I have been forced to recognize (mainly, I have to admit, through trials that I would have preferred not to experience) that there are some things and actions in this world which just simply are good, and some which are just simply destructive. And, despite the overwhelming presence of the destructive, those things which are good persist and often overcome the destructive. I guess these facts have been shoved in my face often enough that I cannot honestly deny that the God exists and that the persistence of the good can only be attributed to Him.

That said, I totally understand your difficulty with “going through the motions” and with not having an interior certainty about matters of faith. I completely agree that it ** is ** better to do things with total enthusiasm and sincerity (for lack of better words), but this just isn’t always possible.

And although “going through the motions” is empty and hypocritical- I find that I’ve been forced to acknowledge in my own life that God really does concern Himself in our affairs and uses even evils & privations to accomplish good.

Anyway, if you’ve managed to wade through this over-long rambling reply, I don’t know if I’ve really addressed your questions, but I hope you find something in all this that’s helpful.

You have my prayers. Please keep on fighting the good fight. I can’t believe that God will let you go through your life without some solutions to your difficulties and some consolation.
 
Montana,

Please, someone tell me…

I’m a lifelong Catholic, but I’m beginning to suspect I don’t have any faith at all. I don’t equate merely being Catholic with real faith, and I certainly don’t think it’s any guarantee of salvation, but I would think that “doing” Catholic things or “being” Catholic in the sense of going through the motions would at least indicate a little faith. As it is, I see the universe as me–here, God–somewhere else.
The secret is…there IS NO SECRET.
You are correct in saying we do not have a guarantee of salvation. I just heard Father Corapi on EWTN say that very thing. It is the Grace of God ( a gift from Him) that allows salvation. So what to do?
Use the sacraments, be as good a man as you can, trust Holy Mother Church, do some good work even if it supporting a worthy cause like Catholic radio station of a home for runaways. Trust in the Lord to give you what you need.
You may be “going thru’ a dry spell”. Some Religious Fathers have said to stick to your standard way of praying, but talk to the Holy Spirit, tell Him your thoughts. Then be silent for a while, eyes closed - and listen passively. It will come, a brand new you.
You asked a good question. When you try to force it, it seems to be hard to get anything from prayer. The Holy Spirit will not let you down…Jesus called Him, the “Comforter”.

JMJ
 
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montanaman:
Please, someone tell me…
I’m a lifelong Catholic, but I’m beginning to suspect I don’t have any faith at all. I don’t equate merely being Catholic with real faith, and I certainly don’t think it’s any guarantee of salvation, but I would think that “doing” Catholic things or “being” Catholic in the sense of going through the motions would at least indicate a little faith. As it is, I see the universe as me–here, God–somewhere else.
You could answer just about every question on this board with “pray more,” and I suppose ultimately that’s what I’m going to have to do. But even when I “felt” something, it was still like a “presence,” or, I don’t know… Basically, I think I expected more.
I think I was told once to “just go through the motions” if I didn’t have any faith. I figured by doing so, it was an indication of at least embryonic faith, and it would grow. Well, I’ve discovered that when just going through the motions, I’m just as suceptible to temptation as I am the sentiments felt in an incense-filled bascilica. I could go either way. More often than not, I go the way of temptation because it seems somehow more…“real.” I don’t enjoy it, I just let myself fall because the effort it takes to keep the “imagination” of faith alive is weak.
To me, faith is fighting the good fight–I’m going to be teaching apologetics and CCD soon, and while I can get my mind around most arguments pro/con for Catholicism, I’d be an utter hypocrite if I were to try to talk about the love of God. The love of God? What is that? Who is he? Does he really intervene and concern himself with our little affairs? I don’t know. At the end of the day I think that WE must do what we can in our lives, and God is just there at the end to judge us. That is NOT a recipe for heart-breaking love in my book.
I guess I’m just asking–does everyone feel this way? Is faith merely the struggle, or is there a secret interior place that can’t be expressed with words? What do you people with faith “feel” day to day?
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Wow! I am surprised! Have faith in Jesus and ask Him. He is the only One that can give you what you need. Matthew 17:20-21 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

Just have faith and trust in Him. That’s the whole thing. Right there in front of your spiritual eyes.

humbly,
 
I don’t have much advice for you, but I can tell you that you’re not alone. Like other posters have said, many of the great Saints felt this way too. I was in Adoration recently and I realized that it is easier for me to believe in the Real Presence than it is for me to believe that Jesus wants to spend time with me.

Pax et bonum
 
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montanaman:
Please, someone tell me…
I guess I’m just asking–does everyone feel this way? Is faith merely the struggle, or is there a secret interior place that can’t be expressed with words? What do you people with faith “feel” day to day?
Click to expand...
Hey Brother 😉
Listen I go through some messed up things too and so I think I kinda know where you’re comin’ from. Maybe I can share the load huh?

I think we all hit “dry places” from time to time in our walk with Our Lord and I’m really grateful that He understands and doesn’t bust our chops for it y’know? Everybody has a doubt sometimes, I mean look at the Apostles!

Let me suggest a book that might help some. Ever read “Story of A Soul”? It’s the autobiography of St. Terese the Little Flower and it’s great, not because it’s profound, though sometimes it is, and not because it’s inspiring, though it’s that too. I love it (and the little Flower!) because she talks about the low places and the times when she didn’t think that God even thought of her at all and her life was dry as a desert. Yet she always found her way through and we have a really fine example of a maxed out Christian life because of her perseverence and love for Our Lord. All I can is that she helped me as I read her book and my life is much better for it now. Maybe it’ll help you as well.

Meanwhile, may I suggest that you get into your Bible and have a look at any of your favorite parts. A favorite Psalm or passage that spoke to your heart one day.

Then break out your best prayer life, because it’s important to talk to the Lord and tell Him just what’s going on inside of you, though we both know that He already knows…he knows us inside and out better than we even know ourselves…yet…He loves us so very much. Have you seen the Passion of The Christ yet? Maybe this is a good time to see it, or see it again because it will surely drive home that Jesus endured a great deal for somebody…I know it was me… maybe…it was you too huh?

Just some of the stuff I think about when my life feels like the pitts for some reason… I pray it helps some. Also know that I will remember you in all my daily prayers and rosaries. You’re not alone my friend…I promise you that. 🙂
 
Thanks, all,

Your responses are just what I expected–sincere, open, optimistic. Once again, I’m so glad I found this place.

I’m no stranger to spiritual dryness, though. I’ve always gone through it. The only difference now is that I’m slipping back into my deistic tendencies. I’m okay with not having those “spiritual bon bons,” as one buddy once put it. However, in the absence of something clearly discernible from my own imagination or desire, my motivation for avoiding temptation is nearly gone.

I guess that’s the problem–without a real motivation, it’s easy to cynically take advantage of the Sacrament of Confession. Nowadays, I don’t even know if I’m sincere anymore. I go in there, confess my sins, and then when it comes up again, I barely throw up any barrier because I know that I can just go to Confession again. The only question is whether I’ll have the luck of the draw on at my death–state of grace. (And no, this particular sin I’m dealing with isn’t the #1 most-popular solitary act that people want to discuss in the Family Life forum).

I suspect things are going to change in the New Year, though. Perhaps more than I realize, my relationship with my Protestant girlfriend is grinding me down. She’s beautiful, holy, smart, etc. If she was Catholic, she’d be perfect. But even that isn’t the real problem–it’s her family. They’ve shunned her for dating a heathen, even though we have every intention of digging in on January 1 and seeing if we have a future together. In other words–missionary dating. :o

Anyway, thanks again, all. I appreciate it.
 
Dear montanaman,
You said ***“As it is, I see the universe as me–here, God–somewhere else.”
Maybe this is the crux of the problem? I offer the following for reflection:
***This prayer is often called ***“St. Patrick’s Breastplate” because of those parts of it which seek God’s protection. It is also sometimes called “The Deer’s Cry”.

I arise today
Through a mighty strength, the invocation of the Trinity,
Through the belief in the threeness,
Through confession of the oneness
Of the Creator of Creation.

I arise today
Through the strength of Christ’s birth with his baptism,
Through the strength of his crucifixion with his burial,
Through the strength of his resurrection with his ascension,
Through the strength of his descent for the judgment of Doom.

I arise today
Through the strength of the love of Cherubim,
In obedience of angels,
In the service of archangels,
In hope of resurrection to meet with reward,
In prayers of patriarchs,
In predictions of prophets,
In preaching of apostles,
In faith of confessors,
In innocence of holy virgins,
In deeds of righteous men.

I arise today
Through the strength of heaven:
Light of sun,
Radiance of moon,
Splendor of fire,
Speed of lightning,
Swiftness of wind,
Depth of sea,
Stability of earth,
Firmness of rock.

I arise today
Through God’s strength to pilot me:
God’s might to uphold me,
God’s wisdom to guide me,
God’s eye to look before me,
God’s ear to hear me,
God’s word to speak for me,
God’s hand to guard me,
God’s way to lie before me,
God’s shield to protect me,
God’s host to save me
From snares of devils,
From temptations of vices,
From everyone who shall wish me ill,
Afar and anear,
Alone and in multitude.

I summon today all these powers between me and those evils,
Against every cruel merciless power that may oppose my body and soul,
Against incantations of false prophets,
Against black laws of pagandom
Against false laws of heretics,
Against craft of idolatry,
Against spells of witches and smiths and wizards,
Against every knowledge that corrupts man’s body and soul.

Christ to shield me today
Against poison, against burning,
Against drowning, against wounding,
So that there may come to me abundance of reward.
Christ with me, Christ before me, Christ behind me,
Christ in me, Christ beneath me, Christ above me,
Christ on my right, Christ on my left,
Christ when I lie down, Christ when I sit down, Christ when I arise,
Christ in the heart of every man who thinks of me,
Christ in the mouth of everyone who speaks of me,
Christ in every eye that sees me,
Christ in every ear that hears me.

I arise today
Through a mighty strength, the invocation of the Trinity,
Through belief in the threeness,
Through confession of the oneness,
Of the Creator of Creation.
 
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montanaman:
.

I
To me, faith is fighting the good fight–I’m going to be teaching apologetics and CCD soon, and while I can get my mind around most arguments pro/con for Catholicism, I’d be an utter hypocrite if I were to try to talk about the love of God. The love of God? What is that? Who is he? Does he really intervene and concern himself with our little affairs? I don’t know. At the end of the day I think that WE must do what we can in our lives, and God is just there at the end to judge us. That is NOT a recipe for heart-breaking love in my book.

I
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no matter how extensive your knowledge of apologetics and doctrine is you will be worse than useless as a catechist if you have not the love of God in your heart. The catechist is more than a teacher, the catechist echoes the experience of the love of God. Please reconsider teaching until you have taken care of your spiritual life. Although you have already decided pray is useless going through the motions, until and unless you are praying every day, participating actively (not numbly present) at Mass every Sunday, confessing regularly (more often when you are in spiritual doldrums) reading and meditating with scripture daily, you are not prepared to catechise others in the faith.

You say “you expected more” what did you expect? Why did you seek to confine God’s action in your life to conformity with your expectations? This should be the topic of your prayer and reflection while you are struggling with this (entirely normal) spiritual growth process you are going through. You need, badly, a confessor and also a spiritual director. You need more prayer, not more study at this point. Love you and praying for you.

The reason everybody keeps saying this to you is they know that prayer is the dialogue of love. Just as your marriage is in trouble when you stop talking, your love relationship with God is in trouble when you stop talking, and stop listening. Perhaps if you aspire to a receptivity to God in your prayer life you will hear what He has been trying to tell you.

if any of what wiser people than you and I have responded to your plea touches you (like ice cream in a decayed tooth) you will know you have a true answer
 
a wise theology teacher once told me

“Finding God is like being lost in the woods - you can’t search for your rescuer, you have to let the rescuer come to you…try to stop stressing and searching so hard for God. stay put, relax and just simply pray to God that he will find you. and he will in the most creative of ways…”
 
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montanaman:
Thanks, all,

I’m no stranger to spiritual dryness, though. I’ve always gone through it. The only difference now is that I’m slipping back into my deistic tendencies. I’m okay with not having those “spiritual bon bons,” as one buddy once put it. However, in the absence of something clearly discernible from my own imagination or desire, my motivation for avoiding temptation is nearly gone.
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One of our greatest saints, Theresa of Avila was plagued by this nearly her entire adult life. Yet God granted her the grace to carry on His work.

Read Dark Night of the Soul. It is an incredible book, and you will find that this happens to all of us at some time or another. I will lift you up in prayer that Jesus carries you through your trials so you may regain your strength.

God bless,
Sue
 
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