When all you get are crosses...

[gardenswithkids]

…Sure I can get some medication, which we are planning on getting, for the panic attacks, but a pill can’t cure my deep down inner fears of hell, of death, and of God’s judgment. I think the scariest thing is not hell itself, but that God made it so that we ourselves have the power to send our selves there. Why would God allow us poor weak miserable creatures to be able to make a choice like that. It’s almost cruel in a sense. A parent would never allow a child to choose whether or not to kill themselves. Why would God permit that we allow ourselves to be killed forever in hell. It just breaks my heart. I feel like I’m doing this all alone that if he allows me to choose hell, then he won’t help stop me from that choice either. It’s just so scary and awful. I wish it were not that way. I wish God wouldn’t let us do such a thing, but He does. I’m so scared. It just hurts so much. :crying:

:hug1:
Fearing hell is reasonable. However, that fear must be balanced out with knowledge of a loving God with perfect mercy and perfect justice.

He is not cruel. If God didn’t allow us to choose hell, we would not be able to choose heaven either. He respects us enough to give us free will, and He hopes that we will choose to be with Him in heaven.

Loving parents teach their children how to live right and correct them when they do wrong. God does the same–only He’s far more perfect than any of us will ever be at parenting. A good parent knows what to expect of children at various ages of development. God knows each of His children intimately, better than we know ourselves. He gives all of us the opportunity to be with Him in heaven. That’s what He wants too. He’s more merciful with those who are less mature, but He helps us to grow. He provides us with opportunities to spiritually mature, sometimes those opportunities come in the form of consequences for behavior… As children get older, parents should expect more from them. A mature adult child can help his/her parents and society greatly, but an immature adult child who makes wrong choices consistently brings heartache.

Sadly, if an immature adult-aged child continues to choose wrong and harms those in the rest of the household, sometimes parents must make the tough choice of asking them to leave for the good of the family. Other times those children leave on their own, like the Prodigal Son did. That old story repeats over and over throughout our lifetimes, but if in the end the Prodigal doesn’t come to his senses, he’s left eternally in a pig stye.

God *is *a Loving Father, and as a Loving Father He guides and disciplines and rewards and trains His children. Loving parents aren’t waiting to disown our kids and kick them out of the house when the first opportunity arises. That’s the last resort.

You are not doing this all alone. If we think we have to do it on our own, then that is depressing. Anything good that we do, we do with God’s grace. To me fear of hell is a rational fear, but we must also trust God as a Loving Parent Who will safely guide His children home by His grace.

 

[SMHW]

I think the scariest thing is not hell itself, but that God made it so that we ourselves have the power to send our selves there. Why would God allow us poor weak miserable creatures to be able to make a choice like that. It’s almost cruel in a sense. A parent would never allow a child to choose whether or not to kill themselves. Why would God permit that we allow ourselves to be killed forever in hell.

You know Convert, it is scary. But it’s really no scarier than the thought that God dared create us without our permission. (Obviously it would be impossible to ask the permission of a being who did not even exist.) Why would God dare make us in his image? (With an intellect and a free will.) Why not just make us like immortal pet dogs and cats? If God would treat his pets as well as some people I know then being God’s pet would be a pretty good deal.

But God didn’t want us to be pets. He wanted something more. And since he’s God, he gets to choose. It’s pretty humbling to think that God has more a say in who I am than I do.

In a way, having a brain and being able to think and choose seems like a curse. Since I ***can ***think and choose, I ***want ***to think and choose. And like some rebellious teenager, I want to be able to choose what’s good for me and sometime what I know is not good for me.

You say a parent would never allow a child to kill himself. That may be true in the case of a young child. But a good parent doesn’t try to make his child stay a baby. A good parent wants his child to grow up. That means giving up much of the ability to protect that child from himself. A loving parent has to let a child grow into an adult *in spite of *the fact that the child may do things to harm himself.

God wants us to grow into what we are meant to be. But growing up is a pretty terrifying thing.

Despite all the movies about such things I have yet to meet anyone who would really want to go back and relive their teenage or early adult years. When push comes to shove we generally seem to value our current knowledge over our youth. Teens long for the freedom of adulthood but if they are honest, most teens are pretty frightened by the thought of having the responsibilities that come with being an adult. There are just so many ways that we can, and frequently do, fail. Sometimes it’s our own fault. Sometimes it’s the fault of others.

I know this doesn’t really make things any easier for you. But perhaps you need to consider that you are growing from a spiritual teen into a spiritual adult. And it’s scary because you can’t see what the future will bring. But you have the wisdom of the scriptures and the tradition of the Church to guide you. You have the Church, triumphant, suffering, and militant, to journey with you and pray for you. And you have your loving Father God who is cheering you on while you grow into whoever you are supposed to be.

 

[Miserissima]

Eternal Father, I offer You the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Your dear Son, Jesus Christ, in atonement for my sins and those of the whole world.

For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.

Holy God, Holy Mighty One, Holy Immortal One, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Holy God, Holy Mighty One, Holy Immortal One, have mercy on us and on the whole world.

Holy God, Holy Mighty One, Holy Immortal One, have mercy on us and on the whole world.

 

[spiritualunity]

It is one thing to have a healthy fear of Hell and another that you are experiencing. Compassion not mixed with Truth is not compassion at all. And If I was not to say that you need to take yourself by your shirt collar and beginning doing what it takes to know God’s love, all the compassion for you in the world won’t help you.
I know you are strong. Much stronger then you appear. And all of us go through some major stuff in our lives and some more then others. I am one who has way more then my share and I know, the only way I have gotten through things was taking responsibility for my own self and stop blaming God for being mean,etc.
A dear friend of mine who is a physcologist has taught me alot. And one thing he said is we all have mental issues and dysfunctions,but before we named them with these labels we called it sin. Which started with Adam and Eve accusing God ,that is how satan tricked them. All through History people have accused God. How about the Egptians in the Desert with Moses and the height of blame and not taking a good hard look at themselves were the Rabbi’s and Pharisees in Jesus’s time and did NOT want to face their own selves and crucifixed Jesus because of it.
What your going through is nothing new. Do, I feel compassion for you, yes!! Do I think coddling you is good-NO!
Now you know you have the support of this community. I think that is wonderful. Now, what are you going to do about your thinking? Who will you talk to. What steps,even if baby steps,are you going to take. It is not about how fast you grow it is about just doing it. Even if a little at a time. Most often that is the best way.
You are no different then the rest of us. Put a new name in,a different face or circumstance, we ALL have our own personal demons to face. The road to this spiritual recovery is NOT as long or as hard as you seem to make it out to me. That is why I suggest biting off a little at a time,but the important thing is to start. This whining stage is good and it is important because when we complain that means some issue of ours is up and I know that when something is up it is on it’s way out, if we do not go backwards and try and hide in old safe things what seem to have worked in the past. They will not work now because you have put yourself out here. That is a great thing you did. You are at the beginning of change.
Convert, what are your goals and plans towards your goals to overcome your fear of death,actually more of a fear of Hell? Blaming God for giving us free will is not going to help you. I know as a human being,it is so tempting to blame anyone and everyone. But that doesn’t help us feel better. It actually makes us feel worse.
Your fear of hell is not the way our Church teaches it. I think one thing that would help you is to really get to know what our Church really teaches. Many people have many views,and that can confuss you. But reading,and learning for yourself exactly about your Religion will open new doors for you.
I know this seems contraying to what you have said in your posts, but it keeps coming back to me and I feel I need to say it…There seems to be something behind all this fear. Besides just fearing hell.I can not begin to know what is in you. But I can have my thoughts about all you have said. It is clear you have a big heart. And you are a good person.
It is also clear to me that you are getting alot of attention for these irrational thoughts and feelings. Now,this could be good and is good,however, if this is all there is then it is like a child throwing a tan trum and getting what he wants. Whereas,it would be better to ignore him or show him his choices and consequences of his actions. Which leds me to think, Convert, are you afraid of the consequences to something in the past?
I just think it is time for you to ask yourself some tough honest questions, so you can get a grip on all this so you can see God in the correct light and also to feel better. You need a Realtionship with Jesus. And as long as you keep Him at a distance with your fears and blaming,etc. your not going to get better. I so much want you to have a loving relationship with God and to feel better.
This much be very hard on your husband. I am glad he is there for you. But there is such a thing as carrying on too long. That is healthy fear unlike the irrational fear you are experiencing now.
I will pray alot for you. I care about you and because I care, I will be honest in the way I know how. I am a very strong woman who has been through more then anyone I know and that is not a brag. I wish I could of learned my lessons without so much pain. But the important thing is God has shown me how to Love Him and His love for me. And that took a long time. So, I know it is not over night change here. But one must begin the journey if you want to reach the goal. And you seem to be saying that you desire to know God’s love for you and to love Him in return.That is beautiful. And that desire is not all by yourself. The Holy Spirit gave you that gift of wanting it better.
God Bless you,
Spirit

 

[spiritualunity]

God Wills Your Happiness!
By the late Father Kilian McGowan, C.P. Used with permission, from the Passionist Priests, to help spiritually guide the layman.

There are two areas especially where lack of conviction imperils your peace of mind. The first is when you lack conviction concerning God’s personal love and interest in you; and the second is when you fail to believe that He effectively wills your happiness. For everything that will ever happen to you proceeds from the infinite power and wisdom of God and is directed to your happiness.

Do you believe those basic truths? If you don’t you’ll never enjoy true peace until you do. For the peace that this world cannot give-the peace that surpasses all understanding-only comes when you begin to cooperate with God’s loving will. This kind of generous devotedness to His Will is practically impossible without these two basic convictions.

One of our biggest troubles in life is that we really don’t know what is good for us. And what is worse, we are sure that we do! We make up our own plans for life and then we pray to God to stamp His approval on our self-written formula for happiness. He is consulted after the project has been laid out, and then only asked to guarantee its success!!

Obviously, this is wisdom gone haywire! The reverse should be true, for God has already drawn up the plan for our life. He now awaits our help in their accomplishment. And be sure of this…He knows what He is doing, and you can’t improve on His plans. Knowing the deepest desires of your human heart, He alone can lead to their perfect fulfillment.

At times, it does seem hard to believe that God knows what He is doing in His handling of our lives. When we suffer from the malice of others…or loved ones fashion a cross of intense pain or sorrow…or when the burden of fear or anxiety seems overwhelming, it takes a great faith to accept His design as a loving one. But He does know what He is doing, and He is in control of the situation!

There’s not sufficient room here to explain in detail how each must cooperate with God’s plan of life as revealed in the daily course of events, but let us say that God doesn’t want us to act like robots. By abandonment we mean not only a cheerful submission to what is demanded of us, not only a joyful embracing of His Will-but also an intelligent, determined and generous performance of whatever He asks us.

If you’re not quite sure of just what God does expect of you, the principle is to make your own judgment, go ahead and act on it, and leave the rest to Him. Not a few people expect God to send a special message for each little crisis in life. God usually doesn’t act that way towards the creatures He endowed with intelligence and free will. Do your best and He’ll handle the consequences.

If you have done your best in your responsibilities to yourself, your family, and your vocation, and seem to have failed, you must remember that the outcome is the business of God. Needless worry can be a sign of lack of confidence in God. Some things in life are simply beyond your control, and these are in the providence of God.

A great deal of worry arises from the fact that we overestimate the importance of own actions. Having done our best, the ultimate outcome must be left in the hands of God. Should you worry about something that is beyond your power to control or change?

If your life is a partnership with God-and it truly is-aren’t we going to rely on Him to supply for our shortcomings? And if we find ourselves lacking in many needed things, let us remember Saint Paul’s words: “Our sufficiency is from God!”

 

[Belle10]

Wow, great posts from everyone – I especially liked what gardenswithkids and SMHW had to say.

The fear of hell was so intense it was as if I and the whole worlds was going there and had no hope of anything else. I fear hell for myself and all souls. It is my greatest ongoing fear. It is causing me to have these attacks. It is making me physically ill.

As I first read your words above Convert, they reminded me of very similar words St. Faustina said. She was given a vision of hell and of the suffering there. I’m not suggesting that’s what you’re going through exactly, but perhaps you are being allowed to feel a taste of that for some reason.

The wonderful thing is that despite the reality of hell, the reality of God’s mercy is just as real, and far more powerful! When we trust in Him, we need not fear hell. I too fear for the souls of loved ones, but instead of giving in to that fear, I pray for them. I know sometimes it doesn’t feel like that’s a very powerful thing to do, or that it’s helping any, but it does. Prayer is powerful – we’re not, but in praying we recognize and affirm the power of God.

First, Faustina claimed that Jesus had insisted that God is not only merciful to sinners — in fact, in a sense, He is even more merciful to sinners than to the just. Faustina wrote:

All grace flows from mercy ... even if a person's sins were as dark as night, God's mercy is stronger than our misery. One thing alone is necessary: that the sinner set ajar the door of his heart, be it ever so little, to let in a ray of God's merciful grace, and then God will do the rest (Diary, 1507).

**Jesus said to her:

Let the greatest sinners place their trust in My mercy. They have the right before others to trust in the abyss of My mercy. ... Souls that make an appeal to My mercy delight Me. To such souls I grant even more graces than they ask (Diary, 1146).

Today I am sending you with My mercy to the people of the whole world. I do not want to punish aching mankind, but I desire to heal it, pressing it to My merciful Heart. I use punishment when they themselves force me to do so; My hand is reluctant to take hold of the sword of justice. Before the Day of Justice, I am sending the Day of Mercy. … I am prolonging the time of mercy for the sake of [sinners]. But woe to them if they do not recognize this time of My visitation (Diary, 1588 and 1160).**

from: secure.marianweb.net/thedivinemercy.org/message/sopocko/story.php?NID=3364

Jesus told St. Faustina:

Encourage souls to say the Chaplet which I have given you…Whoever will recite it will receive great mercy at the hour of death…When they say this chaplet in the presence of the dying, I will stand between My Father and the dying person, not as the just Judge but as the Merciful Savior…Priests will recommend it to sinners as their last hope of salvation. Even if there were a sinner most hardened, if he were to recite this chaplet only once, he would receive great grace from My infinite mercy. I desire to grant unimaginable graces to those souls who trust in My mercy…Through the Chaplet you will obtain everything, if what you ask for is compatible with My will (687, 1541, 1731).

Don’t despair. The mercy of God is real. :hug1: You’re still in my prayers.