When did Joseph marry Mary?

[genealogist]

I was looking at Group’s recent Bethlehem Village VBS which focused on the birth of Jesus. I thought this might be a good Advent activity for my parish.

I was dismayed when the Director’s guide stated that Joseph and Mary were stillnot married when they arrived in Bethlehem. Obviously they were only betrothed when she is visited by the angel and later the Holy Spirit. But I thought after Joseph’s dream(in Matthew) they married. However when looking at the Luke version it says that Mary was his betrothed when they arrived in Bethlehem. I realize customs are different but were first century Jews okay with a betrothed couple traveling together and the woman being pregnant before the wedding?

The Ignatius Study Bible for Luke was silent.

Any ideas on how to reconcile all this?

 

[Crumpy]

I can’t resolve it, but I can comment on it.

Under these peculiar circumstances, I don’t think it made a difference.

Your point seems to be that early listeners of the gospels would have raised their eyebrows or even more upon hearing this stuff about “betrothed.”

I hope whoever answers this definitively would cite the key OT passages which define and circumscribe marriage. Exactly what was violated here?

In the sense of ‘what God has joined together’, there was never a marriage stronger than Joseph and Mary. In Genesis, God leads Eve to Adam, and that was that. Inasmuch as God lead Joseph to Mary, I think it echoes the “that was that.”

 

[Della]

The passage in Matthew tells us that Joseph took Mary as his wife, but it doesn’t tell us just when he did that. It also tells us he didn’t have sexual relations with her during her pregnancy–which is perhaps Matthew’s way of telling us they were betrothed but Joseph hadn’t formally taken Mary into his house until she gave birth.

Luke’s version has them betrothed when they entered Bethlehem, which would make sense in the light of Matthew’s comment on their relationship. It could be that Joseph wanted to wait to make the marriage formal until Mary’s son had been born so that no one could later say he had been the father–not because he would have been ashamed to be called Jesus’ father, but so Jesus’ paternity wouldn’t be in question later in life. Although, people late on were under the impression that Joseph was Jesus’ father in spite of Joseph being careful in this regard.

We also have to remember that Joseph was Mary’s guardian who had no intentions of having sexual relations with her, so his traveling with her while betrothed was just as if she were his daughter or sister, to think in modern terms of such relationships.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

The Jewish people take illegitimate offspring seriously. Since, Jesus was able to enter the Temple, he must not have been considered illegitimate during his life time. So, based on that, I think they were married shortly after Mary concieved.

Deuteronomy 23:2 (King James Version)
A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

Hosea 5:7
They are unfaithful to Yahweh; for they have borne illegitimate children. Now the new moon will devour them with their fields. WEB

A passage in the Talmud claims that Jesus was illegitimate, this in my opinion was in response to the virgin birth stories in the gospels.

He was not the son of Stada, but he was the son of Pandera. Rab Chisda said, The husband of Jesus’ mother was Stada, but her lover was Pandera. Another said, Her husband was surely Paphos ben Yehuda; on the contrary, Stada was his mother; or, according to others, his mother was Miriam, the women’s hairdresser. The rejoinder is, Quite so, but Stada is her nickname, as it is said at Pumbeditha, Stath da (she proved faithless) to her husband.

chazak.heartofisrael.org/articles/dalman.htm

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Most likely they did not travel alone, families traveled together back then. When they travelled to Bethlehem it was two years after the birth of Christ. The wise men meet them at a house, not in the manger.

newadvent.org/cathen/08377a.htm

Matthew 2:11-17 (New International Version)

11On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold and of incense and of myrrh. 12And having been warned in a dream not to go back to Herod, they returned to their country by another route.
13When they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream. “Get up,” he said, “take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him.” 14So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt, 15where he stayed until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet: “Out of Egypt I called my son.”[a]
16When Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi. 17Then what was said through the prophet Jeremiah was fulfilled:

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Matthew 1:24-25 (New International Version - UK)

24 When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife.

25 But **he had no union** with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

This text only makes sense if Joseph immediately married Mary after learning of the virgin birth.

Elsewhere, the people refer to Jesus as the son of Joseph and of Mary.

 

[Liberian]

Daniel,

Luke is pretty explicit that Jesus was born in Bethlehem; thus He had not been born when Mary and Joseph traveled to Bethlehem. You are right, though, that they probably didn’t travel alone. You are also right that the Magi found them in a house (a week and a half later, if the celebration of Epiphany means anything; certainly after some interval of time); I doubt seriously that any woman (or man, for that matter) in Bethlehem would have left them in the stable with a newborn. Finally, Herod was just being thorough; the order to kill all boys two years and younger was making sure that Jesus didn’t slip through his net.

• Liberian

 

[LilyM]

Daniel,

Luke is pretty explicit that Jesus was born in Bethlehem; thus He had not been born when Mary and Joseph traveled to Bethlehem. You are right, though, that they probably didn’t travel alone. You are also right that the Magi found them in a house (a week and a half later, if the celebration of Epiphany means anything; certainly after some interval of time); I doubt seriously that any woman (or man, for that matter) in Bethlehem would have left them in the stable with a newborn. Finally, Herod was just being thorough; the order to kill all boys two years and younger was making sure that Jesus didn’t slip through his net.

• Liberian

Amen! Jesus was born in Bethlehem because it was prophesied that the Messiah WOULD be born in Bethlehem. Mary and Joseph obviously continued to live there for at least a short period after the birth - either two years or some lesser period. And as Liberian rightly points out, once people left after the census they could find different and better accommodation.

Obviously the Wise Men probably told Herod that they had been following the star for two years, which is reasonable, they journeyed a long distance. Since Herod didn’t know what date the Messiah was supposed to be born, he seems to have decided to kill all male children born in Bethlehem since the star first appeared to the Magi.

 

[adrift]

Footnotes from The New American Bible

Betrothed to Joseph: betrothal was the first part of the marriage, constituting a man and woman as husband and wife. Subsequent infidelity was considered adultery. The betrothal was followed some months later by the husband’s taking his wife into his home, at which time normal married life began.

Mathew 1:20

Such was his intention when, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary your wife into your home. For it is through the Holy Spirit that this child has been conceived in her.

Joseph married Mary before the Angel came to her announcing the birth of Jesus. Betrothal was the frist part of the marriage followed by a year for the woman to prepare to enter her husbands house.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

16When Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi.

John 6:42
They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”

Luke 4:22
All spoke well of him and were amazed at the gracious words that came from his lips. “Isn’t this Joseph’s son?” they asked.

Luke 3:23
Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph,

These texts tell me that, their part of the marriage where they lived together was close enough to his conception for them to believe that Joseph was his real father.

 

[adrift]

Matthew 1:24-25 (New International Version - UK)

This text only makes sense if Joseph immediately married Mary after learning of the virgin birth.

Elsewhere, the people refer to Jesus as the son of Joseph and of Mary.

Joseph was present at the birth. Luke 2:4-8 Was this a miswriting?
Luke 1:26,27

In the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a town of Galilee called Nazareth,
27
to a virgin betrothed to a man named Joseph, of the house of David, and the virgin’s name was Mary.

Betrothed was the first part of the marriage. Mary was married (betrothed) to Joseph before Gabriel was sent from God.

 

[TimOliv]

The Jewish people take illegitimate offspring seriously. Since, Jesus was able to enter the Temple, he must not have been considered illegitimate during his life time. So, based on that, I think they were married shortly after Mary concieved.

Deuteronomy 23:2 (King James Version)
A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

Hosea 5:7
They are unfaithful to Yahweh; for they have borne illegitimate children. Now the new moon will devour them with their fields. WEB

A passage in the Talmud claims that Jesus was illegitimate, this in my opinion was in response to the virgin birth stories in the gospels.

chazak.heartofisrael.org/articles/dalman.htm

Jesus would not have been considered illegitimate even if Joseph and Mary had NOT been married when he was born. The only time a child was considered a “Mamzer” was when the marriage of the parents would have been forbidden.

Example, you are of the priestly tribe of Levi and you have relations with a woman who converted to Judaism according to Jewish Law. This union is prohibited as the priests could not marry converts. Any resulting child would be a mamzer.

This doesn’t mean that I believe Jesus was born outside of wedlock, but your justification for such being true is based upon modern day interpretations of the legitimacy of a child.

Keep in mind what sexual intercourse meant at the time. Think about Jacob. Jacob is all ready to marry Rachel, Lot slips Leah into his tent, Jacob sleeps with Leah and thus they are married. By modern terms this means that Jacob cheated on his bride-to-be, not that he married someone else.

Since Joseph and Mary did not have intercourse, then until she came into his home wouldn’t they technically remain “betrothed?”

Anyone?

 

[Bruised_Reed]

If I understand your question, yes they were (remained) betrothed.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

The offspring of such a marriage are mamzerim (bastards, illegitimate), and subject to a variety of restrictions; however it is important to note that only the offspring of these incestuous or forbidden marriages are mamzerim. Children born out of wedlock are not mamzerim in Jewish law and bear no stigma, unless the marriage would have been prohibited for the reasons above. Children of a married man and a woman who is not his wife are not mamzerim (because the marriage between the parents would not have been prohibited), although children of a married woman and a man who is not her husband are mamzerim (because she could not have married him).

jewfaq.org/marriage.htm

Ok, it looks like you are right. If they were not living together as man and women ( fully married ) when they had Jesus, he does not bear the stigma that Western culture would put on them, thus pre-marrital relations for engaged couples is not a sin based on this because they are getting married.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Matthew 1 says,

20But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

22Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

23Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

24Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:

25And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

In Luke 2:5 it says,

Luke 2:5 (King James Version)

To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.

a footnote in the NET Bible says,

Traditionally, “Mary, his betrothed.” Although often rendered in contemporary English as “Mary, who was engaged to him,” this may give the modern reader a wrong impression, since Jewish marriages in this period were typically arranged marriages. The term ἐμνηστευμένῃ (emnhsteumenh) may suggest that the marriage is not yet consummated, not necessarily that they are not currently married. Some mss read “the betrothed to him wife”; others, simply “his wife.” These readings, though probably not original, may give the right sense.

Upon checking a textual commentary published by the American Bible Society, the evidence for the word “betrothed” is uncertain or ambiguous at best.

So, yes it is possible that the word betrothed is a mistake in our modern texts.

Luke 2:5 (Daniel Marsh edition )

To be taxed with Mary his wife, being great with child.

In Luke chapter 1, we are told that Mary stayed with her cousin for three months until she birthed John.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

The term “betrothal” in Jewish law must not be understood in its modern sense; that is, the agreement of a man and a woman to marry, by which the parties are not, however, definitely bound, but which may be broken or dissolved without formal divorce. …

Several Biblical passages refer to the negotiations requisite for the arranging of a marriage (Gen. xxiv.; Song of Songs viii. 8; Judges xiv. 2-7), which were conducted by members of the two families involved, or their deputies, and required usually the consent of the prospective bride (if of age); but when the agreement had been entered into, it was definite and binding upon both groom and bride, who were considered as man and wife in all legal and religious aspects, except that of actual cohabitation. The root (“to betroth”), from which the Talmudic abstract (“betrothal”) is derived, must be taken in this sense; i.e., to contract an actual though incomplete marriage. In two of the passages in which it occurs the betrothed woman is directly designated as “wife” (II Sam. iii. 14, “my wife whom I have betrothed” (“erasti”), and Deut. xxii. 24, where the betrothed is designated as “the wife of his neighbor”). In strict accordance with this sense the rabbinical law declares that the betrothal is equivalent to an actual marriage and only to be dissolved by a formal divorce.

Betrothal and Home-Taking.
…
After the betrothal a period of twelve months was allowed to pass before the marriage was completed by the formal home-taking. In case the bride was a widow or the groom a widower, this interval was reduced to thirty days (Ket. v. 2; Shulḥan 'Aruk, Eben ha-'Ezer, 56). …

jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=995&letter=B

Betrothal with the ancient Hebrews was of a more formal and far more binding nature than the “engagement” is with us. Indeed, it was esteemed a part of the transaction of marriage, and that the most binding part. Among the Arabs today it is the only legal ceremony connected with marriage. Genesis 24:58,60 seems to preserve for us an example of an ancient formula and blessing for such an occasion. Its central feature was the dowry (mohar), which was paid to the parents, not to the bride. It may take the form of service (Genesis 29; 1 Samuel 18:25). It is customary in Syria today, when the projected marriage is approved by both families, and all the financial preliminaries have been settled, to have this ceremony of betrothal. It consists in the acceptance before witnesses of the terms of the marriage as contracted for. Then God’s blessing is solemnly asked on the union thus provided for, but to take place probably only after some months, or perhaps some years. The betrothal effected, all danger from any further financial fencing and bluffing now being at an end, happiness and harmony may preside over all the arrangements for the marriage day. Among the Jews the betrothal was so far regarded as binding that, if marriage should not take place, owing to the absconding of the bridegroom or the breach of contract on his part, the young woman could not be married to another man until she was liberated by a due process and a paper of divorce.

studylight.org/enc/isb/view.cgi?number=T5814

Matthew 1:19
Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.

So, they were legally married in Matthew chapter 1, otherwise why did Joseph think about divorce?

 

[uncleauberon]

jewfaq.org/marriage.htm

Ok, it looks like you are right. If they were not living together as man and women ( fully married ) when they had Jesus, he does not bear the stigma that Western culture would put on them, thus pre-marrital relations for engaged couples is not a sin based on this because they are getting married.

This explains why Joseph was a righteous man. to want to divorce her “quietly”.

There is the common misconception that if Joseph had not married Mary she would have been stoned to death for having a child out of wedlock. Not true.

That would only have happened if Joseph made a big public deal that Mary was not pregnant with his child.

If Joseph were to have a “quiet” divorce … Everyone would have assumed that the Child was Joseph’s. A letigimate child of their Betrothal. At which time Joseph would have to bring his pregnant bride into his house.
– Were he to have a quiet divorce people would have assumed that he was divorcing her for another reason {bad cooking perhaps} and not to do with the Child.

Thus he was a righteous man to want a quite divorce.

Yes - Botrothal was a formal process that would also need to be formally divorced.

tjp

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

amen

 

[Ron_Conte]

I was looking at Group’s recent Bethlehem Village VBS which focused on the birth of Jesus. I thought this might be a good Advent activity for my parish.

I was dismayed when the Director’s guide stated that Joseph and Mary were stillnot married when they arrived in Bethlehem. Obviously they were only betrothed when she is visited by the angel and later the Holy Spirit. But I thought after Joseph’s dream(in Matthew) they married. However when looking at the Luke version it says that Mary was his betrothed when they arrived in Bethlehem. I realize customs are different but were first century Jews okay with a betrothed couple traveling together and the woman being pregnant before the wedding?

Any ideas on how to reconcile all this?

In the OT Law, the betrothal was the beginning of the marriage. In Deuteronomy, if a man slept with a virgin unbetrothed, he was given a penalty, but not put to death. If a man slept with another man’s wife, then he was put to death for adultery. But if a man slept with a betrothed virgin, he was also put to death for adultery. So the betrothal was the legal beginning of an OT marriage.

Joseph and Mary were betrothed before the Incarnation, which is why Scripture refers to Joseph as Mary’s husband even at that early date.

Ron

 

[Pani_Rose]

We know of what you ask because of the writings of St James the Apostle in his ProtoEvangelium

1. And her parents went down marvelling, and praising the Lord God, because the child had not turned back. **And Mary was in the temple of the Lord as if she were a dove that dwelt there, and she received food from the hand of an angel. And when she was twelve years old there was held a council of the priests, saying: Behold, Mary has reached the age of twelve years in the temple of the Lord. **What then shall we do with her, test perchance she defile the sanctuary of the Lord? And they said to the high priest: Thou standest by the altar of the Lord; go in, and pray concerning her; and whatever the Lord shall manifest unto thee, that also will we do. And the high priest went in, taking the robe with the twelve bells into the holy of holies; and he prayed concerning her. And behold an angel of the Lord stood by him, saying unto him: Zacharias, Zacharias, go out and assemble the widowers of the people, and let them bring each his rod; and to whomsoever the Lord shall show a sign, his wife shall she be. And the heralds went out through all the circuit of Judaea, and the trumpet of the Lord sounded, and all ran.
2. And Joseph, throwing away his axe, went out to meet them; and when they had assembled, they went away to the high priest, taking with them their rods. And he, taking the rods of all of them, entered into the temple, and prayed; and having ended his prayer, he took the rods and came out, and gave them to them: but there was no sign in them, **and Joseph took his rod last; and, behold, a dove came out of the rod, and flew upon Joseph’s head. And the priest said to Joseph, Thou hast been chosen by lot to take into thy keeping the virgin of the Lord. But Joseph refused, saying: I have children, and I am an old man, and she is a young girl. I am afraid lest I become a laughing-stock to the sons of Israel. And the priest said to Joseph: Fear the Lord thy God, and remember what the Lord did to Dathan, and Abiram, and Korah; how the earth opened, and they were swallowed up on account of their contradiction. And now fear, O Joseph, lest the same things happen in thy house. And Joseph was afraid, and took her into his keeping. And Joseph said to Mary: Behold, I have received thee from the temple of the Lord; and now I leave thee in my house, and go away to build my buildings, and I shall come to thee. The Lord will protect thee. **

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0847.htm

One must understand the east in this respect. When a couple was Betrothed, and even to this day, they can live together. The betrothal was done a year prior to the Crowning. Today, most often, couple exchange the rings - or what is referred to as Bethroal - the same day as the Crowning, simply because in modern society things change.

con’t