When does "I Will Pray For You" mean "Go Away, You Bother Me"?

[AlanFromWichita]

I started a discussion about this in another forum, and here are a few fruits from that discussion:

Sometimes an impassioned debate ends with one person making sarcastic or dismissive remarks, followed by “I will pray for you”

One observation was this usually happens right when the debate is finally reaching the heart of the matter.

One called it the “holy brush-off.”

One caught me at being judgmental of people who write that kind of thing, because no matter how bad it looks I cannot presume to judge their remarks as insincere.

This is an illustration of what I am talking about…
hypothetical author:

It is you and your kind who are the problem these days. You have demonstrated hostility toward truth, and you should not disgrace your fellow Catholics by counting you among us. Your views are disturbingly aligned with Hitler and other dictators. You and your kind make me sick, and I cannot even read any more of your trash talk, much less respond any more.

I will pray for you.

Peace,
Joe Poster

This is admittedly contrived, but I hope any of you who have seen what I mean will recognize it.

It can come across as meaning, “you are not worth another word of discussion – only God can help a mess like you.”

Is this (sense of having been written off as hopeless) a case of being oversensitive? How should a person think, feel, or respond when on the receiving end of such a remark? Let’s assume the receiver honestly was not trying to be obstinate, but was sincere about the discussion and was really trying to get at the truth – but due to the nature of the topic and the posters’ passion involved it ended up this way.

Further, for this discussion, I will not necessarily assume that the person writing the remark is doing so to be condescending or dismissive – maybe they are, maybe they aren’t.

Does anyone want to discuss this? Mild thread hijacks are welcome afa I’m concerned, within forum rules – under the larger topic of “real and perceived barriers to effective interpersonal communication and/or Christian charity.”

Alan

 

[CatholicSam]

I think most people who use that wonderful phrase in such a horrible, uncharitable way, are lying! I am sure 99% of them do NOT pray for whoever they’re debating.

You could respond with “That’s fine by me, but let’s finish our discussion first.” Sometimes I wonder who they will be praying to

 

[Magicsilence]

I used to think it kind to say such a thing, but more and more I realise that saying “I will pray for you” does nothing but raise a persons view of themselves, and attempts to make others think better of them.

It is the sin of pride to say such a thing.

Alan is correct. It is a brush off.

For if someone were really going to pray they would just do it.

Not say that they will do it.

In Christ.

Andre.

p.s I will pray for you.

 

[Penny_Plain]

Always.

 

[GoldenArrow]

Always.

I’d tend to agree, for a truly humble and sincere person would simply walk away from the argument without having the last word. It is probably these people who actually DO pray for their enemies, secretly, without blowing a trumpet.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Magicsilence:

For if someone were really going to pray they would just do it.

Not say that they will do it.

That is wonderful! May I quote you on it?

(oops just did)

p.s I will pray for you.

OMG! Thank you! http://bestsmileys.com/lol/5.gif

Alan

 

[springbreeze]

Dear Alan

Two people or more can have an argument and still all of them get to heaven. If anyone should use prayer ever to make a point or as a tool to feed an argument then in all honesty that person is probably never going to truly pray for anyone, there just is no need to say it.

The apostles did plenty of arguing amongst themselves and still all of them are great Saints in heaven.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you always

Teresa

 

[Anna_s_Mom]

I always assumed when someone said they would pray for me, that they really would.

It seems to me like it would be a huge act against God to say that you are going to pray if in turn you do not. Kinda like taking the lords name in vain.

 

[GoldenArrow]

I thought more on this, and actually, it seems almost blasphemous to turn something holy, such as prayer, into a curse.

The statement, “I will pray for you,” depending on usage, could be classified as a curse. I feel that converting something holy into a “word knife” borders blasphemy, and is a worse sin that if one had simply used a common profane phrase, such as, for example, “Kiss my ***!” I think it’s less of a sin to use the latter phrase than the former.

LOL!

Personally, for me, I feel MORE hurt when someone says, “I’ll pray for you,” in anger than if they’d simply said, “Go to ****!” That’s just me though.

It seems to me like it would be a huge act against God to say that you are going to pray if in turn you do not. Kinda like taking the lords name in vain

My thoughts exactly!

 

[Lost_Found]

Alan – interesting question, let’s look into it sort of like CS Lewis would…

We like to be praised on what we see as our merits and positive traits.

So for someone to insult you, they simply tell you that they have searched and are unable to find any of those positive traits in you; thus they are giving up the “you-portfolio”, and handing it over to God. (praying for you)

An insulter must ensure that their barb contains at least some truth, in order for it to sting you. Let’s look at the truths that the insulter and the insulted must both understand, for your example to be an insult:

-Almighty God is capable of finding a Good/Love/God in us that the insulter is incapable of drawing out.

-This means the insulter realizes there IS a component of Love/Good/God in everyone.

-The insulter and the insulted both understand that we need to be loved on more than just our merits/traits - otherwise why the sarcastic offer of having God finding our Good?

-In order for us to be fully loved, we can’t solely rely on each other’s love, we all NEED God’s Love to be complete.

So look at all the good news the insulter is giving you! We should be OVERJOYED!!

 

[imagine7777]

Alan, I look at it the way you do, but I’m admittedly oversensitive.

When you look at it objectively, though, it seems both sides are motivated by a need to be seen as “right”.

“[big diatribe on why you’re misguided (ie, don’t think like me)]. I’ll pray for you (to see the light and realize I’m correct).”

v.

They’re being insensitive to me (they’re saying I’m wrong and they’re wrong for asserting they’re right).

Just my $0.02.

If you don’t like it, kiss my you-know-what (sorry; goldenarrow’s post got me laughing).

 

[AlanFromWichita]

This is a wonderful discussion. Thank you all for building upon it both from the point of view of the “prayer” and of the “prayee” as it were.

One point springbreeze mentioned is one of my favorite points to make: the existence of contention does not mean one is right and the other is wrong. Christ avoided judging one man over another, for He knew what was in man’s heart. It seems an answer to the issue “at hand” was not as important as other issues – I might speculate, for example, the manner in which the argument is conducted.

GoldenArrow, until just a few days ago when I think I reached a new understanding of some things, I was also more offended by such but in part after reading this thread, I am strengthened in what I knew all along but temporarily had forgotten in the quest to Fix The World of its interpersonal communications issues. Now I see people whom I think really think this way (and worse may not even recognize their condescention for their blindness) as “needy” people at worst, who yearn for admiration. At best, they are completely honest – and oblivious to how they come across – thus the sin is truly in our own eye. They may honestly think that they have some truth to share, and are doing what they can given they have “surrendered” the argument to God, also a Good Thing. For those people, I hope I can help them learn how to phrase things better even as I learn to do so myself.

Lost&Found, what an excellent way to describe how God, evidenced by an atypical (for the world) line of reasoning, can turn what might be perceived as “harm” into blessing.

imagine, I am impressed by your ostensible healthy attitude that you are not in “need” of anything. Indeed, we are in need of nothing when we are in God. That said, the sinister part within me wants to think you’re kidding and that you really do spend your life concerned with What I Think of you. It is sinister because it is self-serving, and comes from my false-self hunger for unbridled control over others. In the past few weeks I’ve started to get in touch with my “inner control freak,” only recently having been introduced to him!
Anna's Mom:

 I always assumed when someone said they would pray for me, that they really would.

It seems to me like it would be a huge act against God to say that you are going to pray if in turn you do not. Kinda like taking the lords name in vain.

What a beautiful summary. Against God to say you will pray if that is not your intent, and the presumption of innocence on the listener’s part, even if appearing disingenuous.

Penny Plain – I love the way you get to the point. I’m trying to learn same, having some evidence so far but not yet.

Magic, I’ve already enjoyed your take on it.

CatholicSam:

You could respond with “That’s fine by me, but let’s finish our discussion first.”

I really like that reply. Nothing like that had ever occurred to me – if it is taken, it is a wonderful invitation and compliment that you value the conversation and would rather continue than let contention end it.

This is one of the reasons I like this forum board. With a bandwidth and diversity of points of view, I get answers that do not just affirm my point of view, but expand them beyond my personal feelings and get to the truth. Really I am overjoyed at the “bipolar” nature of this thread so far, in that we really are examining this both from the potential harm the person who says such a thing is either doing (to the listener) and/or experiencing (exasperation and maybe a touch of despair), as well as the point of view of the receiver, both in terms of their perception and in forming a Christian response to it.

It takes many members, looking from different points of view, to consitute the entire truth. It seems like the wisdom of the Lord is hidden and fragmented, each of us containing a little piece, and if we put it together we can start having some perspective of the “Big Picture” which, I believe is what Christ would have us do. To me, this sort of discussion is drawing us together even though I admit I had somewhat nefarious motives in starting it.

This is awesome. Thank you everyone; this is an example of technology bringing us unity and truth. I’m truly humbled. Of course, I might be just saying that because I’ve really had my pride fed which requires that I broadcast it while feigning false humility along the lines known best to the like of St. John. (OMG is there no limit to the subtlety of this “pride” thing? :bigyikes: )

Alan

edit>> you people really gave me a good start to today! I’m glad I logged in this morning.