When is a war justified?

[BornInMarch]

War are not fun, but there are times when they may be necessary.

In your opinion, what is the criteria for a war to be justified?

 

[theCrow]

What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing!

Ladies and gentlemen:

War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary, it is always an evil, never a good. We will not learn how to live together in peace by killing each other’s children.

The bond of our common humanity is stronger than the divisiveness of our fears and prejudices. God gives us the capacity for choice. We can choose to alleviate suffering. We can choose to work together for peace. We can make these changes - and we must.

Thank you.
JC

 

[larsont7]

Here’s a link to the Catholic Church’s Just War Doctrine:
ewtn.com/expert/answers/just_war.htm

Some snippets:

In this regard Just War doctrine gives certain conditions for the legitimate exercise of force, all of which must be met:

"1. the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;

1. all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;

1. there must be serious prospects of success;

1. the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition" [CCC 2309].

The responsibility for determining whether these conditions are met belongs to “the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good.” The Church’s role consists in enunciating clearly the principles, in forming the consciences of men and in insisting on the moral exercise of just war.

Unfortunately, these criteria are open to some interpretation, which is why faithful Catholics can disagree about whether a war is just or unjust.

 

[Rafaela]

According to public international law there are two criterias:

1. Sovereign state has a right to defend its territory against aggressor state.
2. By the mandate of UN Security Council.

If one was to apply this criteria on the wars that are fought as we speak, well most of them would be considered unlawful, and no, the international law does not recognize the term ‘pre-emptive war’ what ever that means.

 

[mikekle]

According to public international law there are two criterias:

1. Sovereign state has a right to defend its territory against aggressor state.
2. By the mandate of UN Security Council.

If one was to apply this criteria on the wars that are fought as we speak, well most of them would be considered unlawful, and no, the international law does not recognize the term ‘pre-emptive war’ what ever that means.

This could be pretty serious, as if a war is not considered JUST, by God, then all the soldiers who kill in that war will be held responsible for those killings…this is something I think the church needs to take a bit more seriously, especially when it comes to supporting wars and/or troops in a certain war, when maybe they should be teaching young people what is a JUST war and what is not, and how it may effect their eternal life…Do they just avoid this because of the problems it would no doubt, cause strife with Govt? Is this a case of them being overly concerned with mans laws versus Gods laws?

 

[larsont7]

This could be pretty serious, as if a war is not considered JUST, by God, then all the soldiers who kill in that war will be held responsible for those killings…this is something I think the church needs to take a bit more seriously, especially when it comes to supporting wars and/or troops in a certain war, when maybe they should be teaching young people what is a JUST war and what is not, and how it may effect their eternal life…Do they just avoid this because of the problems it would no doubt, cause strife with Govt? Is this a case of them being overly concerned with mans laws versus Gods laws?

I think you’re confusing two issues here. Whether a war is just or not is one issue. Whether the soldiers who fight in a war are culpable is another. I would argue that most soldiers who fight in wars believe they are fighting a just war, so the culpability would not fall on their shoulders. And I’m also pretty sure the Church takes this issue very seriously.

The problem is that most wars are not so black and white, and the Church remains prudent in not rushing to pass judgment on a particular war as it is taking place. Of course peace is always the optimal solution and war is to be avoided if at all possible.

 

[mikekle]

I think you’re confusing two issues here. Whether a war is just or not is one issue. Whether the soldiers who fight in a war are culpable is another. I would argue that most soldiers who fight in wars believe they are fighting a just war, so the culpability would not fall on their shoulders. And I’m also pretty sure the Church takes this issue very seriously.

The problem is that most wars are not so black and white, and the Church remains prudent in not rushing to pass judgment on a particular war as it is taking place. Of course peace is always the optimal solution and war is to be avoided if at all possible.

Im not so sure about that, I know some guys in the military, and while they are proud of what they do, according to them, they usually can figure out pretty quick why they are in a particular area/ battle/ war, the ones I know stated everyone they were stationed with knew they were fighting so the US can get the oil rights, and other ‘assets’ the US Govt wants…I think the soldiers on the front lines know more than we do, as only source we have is news media, they are right there in the middle of it all!

 

[BornInMarch]

Im not so sure about that, I know some guys in the military, and while they are proud of what they do, according to them, they usually can figure out pretty quick why they are in a particular area/ battle/ war, the ones I know stated everyone they were stationed with knew they were fighting so the US can get the oil rights, and other ‘assets’ the US Govt wants…I think the soldiers on the front lines know more than we do, as only source we have is news media, they are right there in the middle of it all!

First of all, it’s dangerous to generalize entire wars with a hand wave; also disrespectful considering people died. U. S. armed forces being in the Middle East isn’t just “war for oil”, it is much more complicated than that.

Secondly, I think we can both agree that self defense is never a sin (if you are killing someone and it is sinful, it is no longer self defense). In a battle, the soldiers on both sides are trying to kill each other. That means that the soldiers on both sides are acting in self defense when they kill the other soldiers. It stops being self defense when a soldier on one side surrenders; if he surrenders and you still kill him than it is not only a sin but also a war crime.

Finally, to the topic of discussion. If more damage is caused by not getting involved than by armed intervention, than armed intervention is justified. An organization called genocide watch describes the eight stages that Genocides tend to occur in. At the actual extermination stage, the ONLY way to prevent a genocide is with “rapid and overwhelming armed intervention”.

 

[Rafaela]

My background is political science, I have an MA in related field. My first response was very much coming from the spine.

As a personal opinion though, I do not think that there is such a thing as a just cause for war.

What we have to think about though is that there is the law of man and law of God. Even if something is lawful does not necessarily make it good, right or decent.

 

[mikekle]

My background is political science, I have an MA in related field. My first response was very much coming from the spine.

As a personal opinion though, I do not think that there is such a thing as a just cause for war.

What we have to think about though is that there is the law of man and law of God. Even if something is lawful does not necessarily make it good, right or decent.

You may not feel that there is a just cause for any war, but apparently Jesus did, or else it would not be discussed in the bible. I think this is amounts to humans seeing things with human emotions and eyes, we have our feelings and opinions about such things, but Gods trumps ours every time, and usually we have differing ideas about what is just and what is not.

Furthermore, I think if self defense could be used as an explanation for killing in a war, why would the bible have even made the distinction between a just and unjust wars? there is obviously a difference and the results are different from each…killing in one type is OK, but in an unjust war, it is NOT, and I presume those guilty will have to be accountable for their actions.

 

[BornInMarch]

You may not feel that there is a just cause for any war, but apparently Jesus did, or else it would not be discussed in the bible. I think this is amounts to humans seeing things with human emotions and eyes, we have our feelings and opinions about such things, but Gods trumps ours every time, and usually we have differing ideas about what is just and what is not.

Furthermore, I think if self defense could be used as an explanation for killing in a war, why would the bible have even made the distinction between a just and unjust wars? there is obviously a difference and the results are different from each…killing in one type is OK, but in an unjust war, it is NOT, and I presume those guilty will have to be accountable for their actions.

God knows everything. But he keeps us in the loop with enough things (via the bible and the Church) so as to be sure we know basic answers like whether a war is justified.

The destination between a just and unjust war is for the leaders of world nations. If a king wages an unjust war, he will guilty of sin as appose to if he wages a just war.
The soldiers on the ground are not to blame if they don’t commit atrocities: there is no such thing as guilt by association. In fact, soldiers waging an unjust war are arguably victims because they are usually doing so unknowingly or are just trying to wait until they can go home; soldiers have little say over where the generals above them order them to go.