When is an Octave not an Octave

[TomH1]

I have checked the ordo for this week (Easter Octave 2020) for the Extraordinary Form on the website of the Latin Mass Society (LMS) (a UK organisation) (here at p. 5). It says that the Easter Octave will end with None on this coming Saturday, i.e. Easter Saturday (18/04/20). This puzzled me. I thought an octave is eight days, but Easter Sunday to Easter Saturday only adds up to seven.

I emailed the LMS to ask if this was something that got past the proofreader in error or if it was correct could they explain why the Octave of Easter is not eight days long. They have kindly replied to me. Their reply says no it is not a mistake. It is what is in both the Missal and Breviary. However, they agree an octave is eight and they do not know why the Easter Octave is not.

Can anyone well versed in the rubrics for the Extraordinary Form please explain why Easter’s octave is truncated?

 

[Fauken]

I have checked the ordo for this week (Easter Octave 2020) for the Extraordinary Form on the website of the Latin Mass Society (LMS) (a UK organisation) (here at p. 5). It says that the Easter Octave will end with None on this coming Saturday, i.e. Easter Saturday (18/04/20). This puzzled me. I thought an octave is eight days, but Easter Sunday to Easter Saturday only adds up to seven.

Easter Vigil is on Holy Saturday, and Easter begins with it.

 

[TomH1]

Yes, the Easter Vigil is on Holy Saturday but I do not see how that prevents the Octave ending on Low Sunday. If we compare it with Christmas. Christmas begins with I Vespers on 24th but the octave still runs until 1st January. If what you are saying applies the Christmas Octave ought to finish with None on 31st December. Class I feasts do begin on the eve of the previous day. I am not saying you are wrong because I do not know whether you are; I just do not follow the reasoning.

 

[Fauken]

Yes, the Easter Vigil is on Holy Saturday but I do not see how that prevents the Octave ending on Low Sunday.

It does end on Low Sunday. None is the hour before Vespers. Sundays always begin with 1st Vespers on Saturday.

If we compare it with Christmas.

They’re not the same. Christmas has a second class octave. Easter has a first class octave.

 

[TomH1]

It does end on Low Sunday. None is the hour before Vespers. Sundays always begin with 1st Vespers on Saturday.

I am sorry but that is not computing in my brain! Maybe this house arrest is causing me loss of cognitive functions. If Sunday begins with First Vespers as it does then None prior to First Vespers is None of Saturday and not of the Sunday. Consequently, if the Easter Octave ends at None on Easter Saturday it is ending on Easter Saturday and not on Low Sunday.

They’re not the same. Christmas has a second class octave. Easter has a first class octave.

That is what the LMS suggested may be the reason. However, an octave is eight days. I do not believe the class of an octave affects its length. My understanding is that the class of an octave determines what liturgical days can be celebrated during an octave and whether on those days the octave needs to be commemorated.

 

[Fauken]

I am sorry but that is not computing in my brain! Maybe this house arrest is causing me loss of cognitive functions. If Sunday begins with First Vespers as it does then None prior to First Vespers is None of Saturday and not of the Sunday. Consequently, if the Easter Octave ends at None on Easter Saturday it is ending on Easter Saturday and not on Low Sunday.

No, it ends after None on Easter Saturday. As far as the calendar is concerned, it’s now Sunday, octave or not. Saturday is over after None.

 

[TomH1]

No, it ends after None on Easter Saturday. As far as the calendar is concerned, it’s now Sunday, octave or not. Saturday is over after None.

Yes, I understand that Vespers on Holy Saturday is actually now Low Sunday. That is not where my difficulty lies. I am asking why is Low Sunday not in the Octave of Easter. The rubrics say an octave is eight days long. But, if I count the days the exclusion of Low Sunday only makes it seven.

1. Easter Sunday
2. Easter Monday
3. Easter Tuesday
4. Easter Wednesday
5. Easter Thursday
6. Easter Friday
7. Easter Saturday

Why is Low Sunday not part of the Octave of Easter?

[8. Low Sunday]

 

[Fauken]

But, if I count the days the exclusion of Low Sunday only makes it seven.

1. Easter Sunday
2. Easter Monday
3. Easter Tuesday
4. Easter Wednesday
5. Easter Thursday
6. Easter Friday
7. Easter Saturday

You’re still missing Easter Vigil. It’s:

1. Easter Vigil
2. Easter Sunday
3. Easter Monday
4. Easter Tuesday
5. Easter Wednesday
6. Easter Thursday
7. Easter Friday
8. Easter Saturday

 

[TomH1]

To me the Easter Vigil is a liturgy not a day. Are you saying that Holy Saturday is the first day of the Easter Octave and not Easter Sunday?

 

[Fauken]

To me the Easter Vigil is a liturgy not a day. Are you saying that Holy Saturday is the first day of the Easter Octave and not Easter Sunday?

No, Easter Vigil, which starts at the end of Holy Saturday (on Saturday) begins the octave. It then goes on until None on the Saturday within the octave.

 

[TomH1]

No, Easter Vigil, which starts at the end of Holy Saturday (on Saturday) begins the octave. It then goes on until None on the Saturday within the octave.

Therefore, we have to count Holy Saturday in the octave. If we do not we do not get eight.

 

[Fauken]

Therefore, we have to count Holy Saturday in the octave. If we do not we do not get eight.

Correct, though it’s because of Easter Vigil being on Holy Saturday and not because of Holy Saturday itself.

 

[TomH1]

When is the Easter Vigil celebrated on Holy Saturday?

In the Ordinary Form it is at night and must be after nightfall.

I am not sure about the Extraordinary Form. I know it used to be on Holy Saturday morning. However, I think Pope Venerable Pius XII moved it to the night in his reform of the Holy Week Rites.

 

[Vico]

I have checked the ordo for this week (Easter Octave 2020) for the Extraordinary Form on the website of the Latin Mass Society (LMS) (a UK organisation) (here at p. 5). It says that the Easter Octave will end with None on this coming Saturday, i.e. Easter Saturday (18/04/20). This puzzled me. I thought an octave is eight days, but Easter Sunday to Easter Saturday only adds up to seven.

I emailed the LMS to ask if this was something that got past the proofreader in error or if it was correct could they explain why the Octave of Easter is not eight days long. They have kindly replied to me. Their reply says no it is not a mistake. It is what is in both the Missal and Breviary. However, they agree an octave is eight and they do not know why the Easter Octave is not.

Can anyone well versed in the rubrics for the Extraordinary Form please explain why Easter’s octave is truncated?

Short of eight days by lack of Vespers? Could it be that a universal feast can take precedence over the Second Vespers of a Sunday?

• Changes were made in 1955 – see AAS 47(1955), pages 218-224.
  Easter days and octave were raised to the Double rite and gained precedence, and the Octave of Christmas was also made a Double rite, but stayed the same in celebration.

 

[Dovekin]

The Easter Vigil takes place on Easter Sunday, after the day starts at sunset.

Low Sunday probably now outranks the the Octave, so Octave ends a day short. That is my uninformed guess.

 

[TomH1]

Short of eight days by lack of Vespers?

Absolutely not! Short of eight days because of lack of Low Sunday counted in the octave.

Could it be that a universal feast can take precedence over the Second Vespers of a Sunday?

It would depend. Are we still talking about the Extraordinary Form? Then yes, if the feast is first class and the Sunday is second class. If you are referrig to the Ordinary Form only if the feast is a feast of the Lord and the Sunday is of Christmas or Ordinary Time.

 

[Vico]

Vico:

Short of eight days by lack of Vespers?

Absolutely not! Short of eight days because of lack of Low Sunday counted in the octave.

Could it be that a universal feast can take precedence over the Second Vespers of a Sunday?

It would depend. Are we still talking about the Extraordinary Form? Then yes, if the feast is first class and the Sunday is second class. If you are referrig to the Ordinary Form only if the feast is a feast of the Lord and the Sunday is of Christmas or Ordinary Time.

Thank you. So I see from the other comments that there are eight days (but not aligned to calendar days) of celebration in the octave, which begin with the Vespers on Holy Saturday (April 11).

This is similar to the Byzantine Catholic Typicon. We had Holy Saturday Great Vespers with Divine Liturgy of St. Basil the Great on April 11 evening - which at one time was the day of baptisms. This was followed by Pascha Matins and Pascal Divine Liturgy on April 12. (But it is also possible to have these late Saturday night). Bright Week followed, to end with the ninth hour on Bright Saturday April 18. Our books give the directions “Everything as on Pascha except” and then list the Prokeimenon and Alleluia for that day, except that Bright Friday repeats Bright Monday. Vespers on Pascha evening are for Bright Monday, etc. Thomas Sunday then begins with the celebration of Thomas Sunday Great Vespers on Saturday evening, and then on to Thomas Week.

So the daily celebration pattern is from Vespers on the prior calendar day evening to Ninth Hour on the next calendar day.

 

[Glennon_P]

When is an Octave not an Octave?

When Holy Mother Church says so…

 

[TomH1]

When Holy Mother Church says so…

The Rubrics for the Roman Missal and Breviary say: ‘An octave is the celebration, prolonged for eight successive days, of the feast’ (#63).

I know of nowhere that Holy Mother Church says that it is not so in the case of the Octave of Easter.

If you know of a source where it says this I would be most obliged if you could cite it then I may refer to it.

 

[Glennon_P]

The Rubrics for the Roman Missal and Breviary say: ‘An octave is the celebration, prolonged for eight successive days, of the feast’ (#63).

I know of nowhere that Holy Mother Church says that it is not so in the case of the Octave of Easter.

If you know of a source where it says this I would be most obliged if you could cite it then I may refer to it.

I will check my copy of the Liturgy of the Hours when I get home tonight. I’m basing my statement on my recollection of the LOH and how it’s listed.