When is pride a mortal sin?

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Hello all,

I recently went to confession this pass Sunday and I asked a priest about pride. I asked him when does pride become a mortal sin? and he answered me that it becomes a mortal sin when you reject God or God’s help.

I’m quite confused. Please tell me if this is correct.

Thanks
 
Fr Callan and Fr McHugh talk about pride in their work “Moral Theology” (the work has the nihil obstat and imprimatur):

(a) Excessive desire of great deeds is presumption, which attempts to do greater things than one is able to perform (cfr. 1075 sqq.), This happens in conceited persons who overestimate their own abilities, taking on themselves offices for which they are incompetent or exercising powers for which they have no authority; also in vulgar persons who mistake their fortuitous advantages, such as wealth or influence or birth, for character and ability. Presumption is a mortal sin when its cause is a grave sin (e.g., lack of faith) or when its effects are very harmful (e.g., when one who is ignorant presumes to teach or practise medicine, when one who is morally frail presumes to enter occasions of sin). There is no sin if one attempts too much in good faith and from inculpable ignorance.

(b) Excessive desire of honors is ambition, or an inordinate hankering after distinctions and deference. The great of soul desire honors when these are due to their station or when there is a just reason, such as the glory of God or the advantage of the neighbor (Matt., v. 15, 16; Heb., v. 4). The ambitious, on the contrary, seek to be honored beyond their deserts (e.g., when an ignorant man longs for academic degrees, a tyrant wishes to be respected on account of his tyranny, an inferior man seeks to perpetuate himself in temporary elective offices, a rich man or athletic hero expects that he will be revered above those who are eminent for virtue or learning), or they seek honor for its own or their own sake, like the Pharisees who loved the first places at feasts and the first chairs in the synagogues, and salutations in the market place, and to be called by men Rabbi (Matt., xxiii. 7; cfr. I Tim., iii. 1 sqq.; Matt., xx. 25). This sin, being excessive desire of something indifferent, is not per se mortal; but it is made mortal either by a cause that is seriously sinful (e.g., if one’s whole life is but a mad chase for preferments) or by a result that is seriously harmful (e.g., if one commits or is ready to commit serious injustice or uncharitableness to win a coveted dignity). Ambition is cured chiefly by charity, for charity is not ambitious (I Cor., xiii. 5; cfr. Gal., v. 13).

continued….
 
(c) Excessive desire of praise or celebrity is vanity (see 2028, 2269). The great of soul desire the good opinion of their fellow-men (see 1575 sqq.), but they also desire that their good reputation be well founded, and their motive is the glory of God or the spiritual profit of man. The vain, on the contrary, are eager for admiration and praise for which there is no justification (e.g., those who wish to be praised for virtues they do not possess) or which are valueless (e.g., those who fish for compliments over things of no great importance, such as good looks or dress, or who wish to appear learned among the uneducated, or who crave notoriety), or seek admiration without a proper motive (e.g., those who advertise themselves for self-glorification alone). Vanity, like ambition, is per se only a venial sin, but it becomes mortal on account of its cause (e.g., when the motive is to conceal crimes that are planned), or its results (e.g., when the desire to be famous makes one boast of one’s crimes, or refuse to repair injuries done to others, or neglect the honor of God), or its matter (e.g., when one is vain about a reputation for skillful injustice). Vanity is one of the capital sins (see 268 sqq.), since it is one of the motives that chiefly lead men into sin; for all desire excellence, and in consequence the love of renown is one of the chief incentives to action. Even the ambitious crave honors because of the glory honors bring. The offspring of vanity includes the sins by which a man seeks unlawfully to show off his good points, or to prove that he is not inferior and thus capture popularity or glory. In the first class are the publication by word or deed of one’s own true or pretended exploits (boasting hypocrisy), the cultivation of novelties and eccentricities designed to attract attention (such as singularity in opinion, in pronunciation, in dress, etc.). In the latter class are sins of intellect which make one hold obstinately to one’s views (stubbornness), sins of will which make one resist desires of others (discord), sins of word which make one loudly dispute (contention), sins of deed which make one refuse to yield to authority (disobedience).

Their work is available for free here:

 
Fr Prummer and Fr Jone also provide definitions of pride in their respective manuals of moral theology below (both have the nihil obstat and imprimatur):

Fr Dominic M. Prummer OP, “Handbook Of Moral Theology”:

1. Pride and Vainglory.

Pride is an inordinate desire for one’s own excellence (St. Thomas).

Pride is said to be complete when a man extols himself to such an extent that he is unwilling to admit subjection to God and His laws through fear that such subjection would be harmful to his own excellence. Such pride is a mortal sin, because it is a contempt of God or of those who stand in His place. Pride is imperfect when a man thinks of himself too highly without rejecting his subjection to God and his superiors. Such pride is in itself venially sinful since it does not imply a serious disorder. But every form of pride is an extremely dangerous vice, a) because it insinuates its way into all good deeds so as to destroy their merit; b) because nothing so quickly grows in us and so slowly dies; c) because it is not easily recognised.

Sins to which pride leads are: presumption, ambition, vainglory, boasting, hypocrisy, strife, disobedience.

Remedies for pride are: a sincere knowledge of oneself, consideration of Christ’s humility, the practice of humility.

Vainglory is an inordinate desire to manifest one’s own excellence.

Therefore while pride in its general form is an inordinate desire for one’s own excellence, vainglory is primarily a desire to manifest one’s personal excellence; it is an inordinate desire to receive praise from men.

Fr Heribert Jone, “Moral Theology”:

Pride, or the inordinate desire for honor and distinction, is a mortal sin ex toto genere suo, when it is of such a nature that one will not even subordinate to God. It is a venial sin ex toto genere suo if, with becoming subjection to authority, one longs inordinately for honor and distinction.

The latter kind of pride may accidentally be a mortal sin if it involves a grave injustice toward others or if it is the occasion of other mortal sins.
 
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Yes, I was not familiar with this definition of “ambition” either @Agnus-Dei. Moral theologians seem to use it to refer to a “sinful” form of ambition (even the “The Catholic Encyclopedia” defines ambition as “the undue craving for honour.” CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Ambition)

Obviously, there is also “lawful” ambition which is not a sin, eg to be a competent professional in whatever field that may be, to provide for one’s family, to earn a decent income, etc. I posted some quotes from Fr Spirago (here Pride, of the 7) discussing that Christians are also permitted to seek high offices if they have the necessary talents for the office, have noble intentions etc.
 
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I don’t see what was so confusing about the priest’s response. It is simple, and makes perfect sense to me.

What exactly confused you?
 
Hello Tis_Bearself, I was confused because when I researched, they say that pride is already a mortal sin and they did not mention even if we reject god or not. So I was confused about what he said.
 
All sins, at their heart, are sins because they reject God. That distinction is always there whether it is explicitly stated or not.
 
@Inquiry Cornelius à Lapide in his commentary on Matthew 3:8 “bring forth therefore fruit worthy of repentance”, says that not only is 1 mortal sin a complete rejection of God, it is also in a sense deicide too!

“For one single mortal sin, inasmuch as it is an offence against God, and because thereby the sinner implicitly places his chief good and end in the creature, which he loves so as to prefer it to God, and so takes away from the honour of the Deity, such sin is therefore as it were Deicide and Christicide, and so contains within it an infinity of wickedness. For it is an offence and an injury against God, who is immense and infinite. Wherefore by no punishment or penance of any creature whatsoever can just and adequate satisfaction be made to God. Yea, even if all men and all angels were, of their own accord, to endure all the torments of hell for all eternity, they could never offer worthy penance and satisfaction to God for a single mortal sin. Christ alone can do this, inasmuch as He is the Son of God, and very God. His penance, therefore, and satisfaction, as regards His Person, which is of infinite dignity, are likewise of infinite value, and are equal and adequate to the infinite offence committed against an infinite God. Such is the sinfulness of sin, which if men thoroughly perceived, surely they would sin no more.” (from The Great Commentary of Cornelius à Lapide)
 
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Pride is a deadly sin.

Deadly sins are attitudes and attachments that cause us to sin against God.

Just the feeling of “pride” isn’t a sin.
 
B777 said:
… they did not mention even if we reject god or not…
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Per Catholic Encyclopedia on Sin: “It is not necessary that the explicit intention to offend God and break His law be present, the full and free consent of the will to an evil act suffices.”

Merriam-Webster: advertence, noun
1. the action or process of adverting : attention
2. adventency
synonym: knowledge

Catholic Encyclopedia
From the condemnation of the errors of Baius and Jansenius (Denz.-Bann., 1046, 1066, 1094, 1291-2) it is clear that for an actual personal sin a knowledge of the law and a personal voluntary act, free from coercion and necessity, are required. No mortal sin is committed in a state of invincible ignorance or in a half-conscious state. Actual advertence to the sinfulness of the act is not required, virtual advertence suffices. It is not necessary that the explicit intention to offend God and break His law be present, the full and free consent of the will to an evil act suffices.
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O’Neil, A.C. (1912). Sin. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14004b.htm
 
B777 said:
I recently went to confession this pass Sunday and I asked a priest about pride. I asked him when does pride become a mortal sin? and he answered me that it becomes a mortal sin when you reject God or God’s help.

I’m quite confused. Please tell me if this is correct.
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It seems correct.

There can be different degrees of Pride - with the worst similar to Satan’s.

The form of Pride is the excessive love of one’s own excellence to the point of rejecting God by refusing to submit in any way to Him
 
What’s the context of the question? I mean this: what is the situation that makes the distinction between pride that is a mortal sin and pride that is a venial sin important to you? Or are you concerned about what is pride (that is, what is an action or attitude or failure to act that amounts to opposition to the virtue of modesty or humility) and what is not pride–that is, not a sin at all? Or are you asking what sort of action in the service of pride is so serious that you ought not approach for Holy Communion until you have confessed it?
 
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Hello,

My question is the distinction between what makes pride a venial or mortal sin. (grave matter)

Thanks a lot for helping
 
F_Marturana said:
Pride is a deadly sin.

Deadly sins are attitudes and attachments that cause us to sin against God.

Just the feeling of “pride” isn’t a sin.
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Right. It’s one thing to take joy in what you’ve been able to accomplish while giving God the glory for his gifts, grace, and help. Realizing that whatever we manage to accomplish, it’s only through God that we can do it.

It’s another thing to be proud and think that you did it all on your own and didn’t need God. That can start out as a venial sin but quickly progress to a mortal sin depending on the degree you shove God aside.

An example of the “mortal sin” kind of pride would be Lucifer deciding he could be more powerful than God instead of thanking God for giving him great gifts and abilities.
 
B777 said:
Hello,

My question is the distinction between what makes pride a venial or mortal sin. (grave matter)

Thanks a lot for helping
Click to expand...
The thing is that pride is a cardinal sin. It is a foundational attitude that engenders other sins. That makes it a matter to be put to flight at every turn…kind of like bad posture or incorrect breathing or inflexibility in the muscles and tendons in an athlete. There isn’t an amount that is not going to impede advancement in the spiritual life or make one more vulnerable to committing other kinds of serious sin.
 
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Yes I think it’s when you push your achievements down another person’s throat and make them feel bad
 
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Thomas tells us that pride, in its pure form, is the unwillingness to be subject to another… The perfect kind would, therefore, be a refusal to be subject to God; and the greater the refusal, the greater the offense - clearly, in matters of fundamental precept (10 Commandments), it would be grave (and therefore pride is always involved in every sin)… and a complete apostasy from the rule of God would be, well, what happened “in the beginning” with the angels and then with Adam and Eve… and with many who decide they want to do whatever they want regardless of the will of God. This would extend to the refusal to be subject to God’s rightful representatives on Earth (4th Commandment)… And then the “feeling” of pride would seem to be an overflow from estimating oneself to be above one’s rightful place in the “pecking order” of the world…

McHugh and Callan are just great. Love that they were brought in - and the other sources are good too!
 
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