When is Simon named "Peter"?

[cazayoux]

I haven’t been in for a while. It’s good to be back.

In a recent reading in mass, we read about Jesus sending a person somewhere called xxx and the text says that xxx means ‘sent’.

It seems that the place was called ‘sent’ because of this event with Jesus. … and we don’t know what it was called before.
Maybe it’s referenced in scripture here so those reading would know what location is being referenced.
I think I’ve seen this kind of thing a couple of times in scripture.

It has me wondering about Simon Peter.
I know that Jesus calls him ‘rock’ when Jesus established him as the ‘rock’ on which He will build His church.
We see in scripture before that moment that he is already called Peter.
Was he in fact named Peter before then?

Is it possible the writers of the gospels reference Simon as Peter in their narrative before Simon was actually called Peter?

When in Simon’s life was he actually first called Peter?

(sorry for asking a question I could answer myself with enough time, but the search function on usccb.org give 6 pages of references for ‘Simon’ in the bible alone.)

michel

 

[kepha1]

In a recent reading in mass, we read about Jesus sending a person somewhere called xxx and the text says that xxx means ‘sent’.

Could you be more vague? Apostle means “one who is sent”, so if xxx is a place, those who lived there must have been called xxxians, or xxxites.

We see in scripture before that moment that he is already called Peter.
Was he in fact named Peter before then?

What scripture? NOBODY was called ROCK. It’s not a name used at that time. Simon bar Jonah is not Greek nor Hebrew. It’s Aramaic. “bar” means son, and “Jonah” means dove or Holy Spirit. Kepha is Aramaic for ROCK.

We see in scripture before that moment that he is already called Peter.
Was he in fact named Peter before then?

Is it possible the writers of the gospels reference Simon as Peter in their narrative before Simon was actually called Peter?

When in Simon’s life was he actually first called Peter?

We see in scripture before that moment that he is already called Paul.
Was he in fact named Paul before Saul?

Is it possible the writers of the epistles reference Saul as Paul in their narrative before Saul was actually called Paul?

When in Saul’s life was he actually first called Paul?

 

[NotWorthy]

Simon was given the name Peter, of course, in Matthew 16. In John, chapter 1, Jesus tells Simon that He will call him Kephas (Peter in Greek), but that was still earlier in His ministry.

You don’t Simon called Peter, at least in the dialogs of the Gospels, until after this moment.

 

[NotWorthy]

In regards to Saul/Paul they are simply variants of the same name. There is no “name changing” of Paul. It seems like Saul was his Hebrew name. Saul (OT), of course, was the first king of Israel and came from the smallest tribe, Benjamin. Saul (NT) would have used this name especially while working with the Jews.

But in Acts, chapter 9, Saul’s mission is redirected to the Gentiles. It seem the Jewish Christians didn’t trust Saul/Paul since that little incident with some rocks and Stephen.

So when Saul goes to the Gentiles, he uses in Roman name, Paul.

 

[jmcrae]

I haven’t been in for a while. It’s good to be back.

In a recent reading in mass, we read about Jesus sending a person somewhere called xxx and the text says that xxx means ‘sent’.

I assume you’re referring to last Sunday’s Gospel, about the blind man who was sent to the pool of Siloam, and there received his sight.

It has me wondering about Simon Peter.
I know that Jesus calls him ‘rock’ when Jesus established him as the ‘rock’ on which He will build His church.

This is when he first received the name, yes.

We see in scripture before that moment that he is already called Peter.

Keep in mind that the Gospels were written years later, for new people (Catechumens) who were first coming into the Church. The Catechumens would have known him as “Peter,” so that’s how the Evangelists refer to him - so that the Catechumens will know who they are writing about.

As an analogy, think of a group of children who are being told something about their teacher. The person telling the story would say, "When Mrs. McRae was engaged to be married, she did this and that. Then, Mrs. McRae did that and this, and then some other thing. It was a beautiful wedding. After the wedding and when she got back from the honeymoon with her husband, she went to the registry office to have her name changed from “Miss Smith” to “Mrs. McRae”.

Obviously, Mrs. McRae was not called “Mrs. McRae” when she was single and engaged to be married. But, because the children know her as “Mrs. McRae” right now, the story teller refers to her by that name, even when he is telling the parts of the story that occurred before she got married.

It’s the same with St. Peter, in the Gospels. The original audience knew him as “Peter,” so that’s how the Evangelists refer to him, even in the parts of the story that take place before he received that name.

 

[DaveBj]

Simon was given the name Peter, of course, in Matthew 16. In John, chapter 1, Jesus tells Simon that He will call him Kephas (Peter in Greek), but that was still earlier in His ministry.

You don’t Simon called Peter, at least in the dialogs of the Gospels, until after this moment.

Not quite right. Jesus changed Simon’s name at their first meeting, as recorded in the first chapter of John.

DaveBj

 

[jmcrae]

Not quite right. Jesus changed Simon’s name at their first meeting, as recorded in the first chapter of John.

DaveBj

Jesus prophesied at that time that Simon would one day be called Peter, but the actual name change takes place in Matthew 16:18.

 

[cazayoux]

Could you be more vague? Apostle means “one who is sent”, so if xxx is a place, those who lived there must have been called xxxians, or xxxites.

My question was honest and the setup that you read above didn’t need specifics to get the gist of the question out.
Your combative tone just isn’t necessary here.

Salut!

 

[cazayoux]

I assume you’re referring to last Sunday’s Gospel, about the blind man who was sent to the pool of Siloam, and there received his sight.

This is when he first received the name, yes.

Exactly.

Your response was exactly the assurance I was looking for.

For me, it makes that exchange all the more important if that is the actual moment that Jesus changes Simon’s name.

Thank you!

michel

 

[DaveBj]

Jesus prophesied at that time that Simon would one day be called Peter, but the actual name change takes place in Matthew 16:18.

If Jesus tells him when He first meets him, “You shall be called ‘Kepha,’” that sounds a awful lot like a name change to me.

DaveBj

 

[jmcrae]

If Jesus tells him when He first meets him, “You shall be called ‘Kepha,’” that sounds a awful lot like a name change to me.

DaveBj

“Shall be” sounds like the future tense, to me.

In Matthew 16:18, He says, “you are Kepha (present tense), and upon this Kepha I will build my Church.”