When Muslims break laws in the "House of War"

[hawk]

meedo:

Brother, why didn’t the Huge United states give them a small state? In which they all can go there in unity and be with their European counterparts that have the same mindset?

Jerusalem is not in the USA

""Do you ever wonder how things might be different if the Jewish immigrants had been allowed to move in peacefully, “”

They bought the land from the arabs, at hugely inflated prices.

Brother do u know how many Arab Jews existed peacefully already in Palestine before the Zionist came? Does u know how many Jews existed and exist peacefully in Morocco? Does u know how many Christians existed peacefully in Palestine? Do u know how many Jews and Christians existed peacefully in the whole Arab world?

None, ask any arab christian.

“”“Zionism was a fringe opinion among Jews until reality eliminated all other options for survival.”"

Brother, if you try to take some peoples land then you will face hard reality, and justified reality. You can come be my neighbor. Just don’t take my country. I think that’s fair. The Jews had all the chances for survival. But not a single western country wanted them all to come to it!!!

First statement I can agree with.

Brother, nobody should give tips from other people’s pockets. The Jews have the right to come and reside. Not to take lands and claim a state that wasn’t theirs.

They bought the land, you should read your history books

““But I would like you to try to place yourself in the place of a major Jewish leader in 1945. What would you have done?””

I wouldn’t have made the Palestinians pay the price for what the Germans did to me that’s for sure. Muslims saved the Jews when it was the inquisition. Now we really really feel betrayed by the Zionists.

What are you talking about exactly?

But I am optimistic and I am sure that most Jews are fair people with good hearts and God willingly will give the Palestinians their land back and all will live in peace

Now I know you are lying,
How can you say this when the Quran tells you that jews are the furthest from the believers?

And the ahadith tells us that in the end days, trees and rocks will be saying “believers, there is a yehudi hiding behind me, come and kill him”

Accept the truth that Mohammed hated the jews after they betrayed him.

I make a plead to my christian brothers to put themselves into other peoples shoes . The jews had the right to buy the land and they already bought land but i am sure that if you would know that your mexican brother would add this piece of land to the Mexican government and claim it to be Mexico then i am sure you would have a different opinion . this isnt the same case sadly .

Only after the Mexican declared war on me
This pathetic whining of the Umma, thank God I left that nonsense behind.

I tell them maar do, maar do saley arbi ko!

Please please brothers and sister apply the terms you want the muslims or arabs to live by to yourselves and be honest to know if you like them or not .

Brother manuel man i hope i didnt upset you . You are a good man and i have read many of your posts and they are nice posts. Its just so hard on one self when he feels he is dont injustice to and the people who arent in his shoes are asking him somthing that might not be somthing they want for themselves if they werte put into it .

Love you all

Peace be upon you .

Peace to you too!

 

[meedo]

““Meedo, you outlined a legitimate grievance against the nations of Europe and America circa 1945, not the Jewish leaders at the time. Had those nations had the guts to investigate and compensate imprisoned Jews for their lost property, given them land areas to settle and credible guarantees of safety, there would have been no mass migration to Palestine.””

Why is it teh burden of the palestinians to give land to the jews then if the western countries didnt have the Guts brother? hwat is the palestinian fault in that ?

“But that didn’t happen. Right or wrong,”

Well it was obviously wrong , still that doesnt give any body the right to take other peoples land .

""the Jewish survivors of the Nazi camps perceived that they had no hope of survival in Europe. They did what probably everybody here would do if the whole world decided shooting catholics was good sport. We’d pack up and get ourselves to the one place we’d heard that there was an organized plan to survive as a people: ROME! “”

**I gues syou have to have permission of rome fist. I just cant barge in saudi just because i am muslim . There is somthing called Sovereignity. **

““In their case, it was the Jewish Agency in Palestine.””

The jewish agency was created unbder the british occupation . It isnt somthing that palestinians welcomed its imposed on them.

“”“Palestine of 1945 wasn’t crowded! “””

I dont think the current europe or america is either!!! That doesnt give me any right to barge in does it ?!

""And these refugees weren’t Attila the Hun! “”

There is enough deportation stories and intimidation and attacks on palestinians to prove that soem good portion of them just despised every body and intended ill to the inhabitantys of the land. Sir you stil to this day have 1948 arab refugees from israel un able to go to their homes just because they were kicked out or were shopping at the time an attack occured or wehere deported !!!

“”"“They were emaciated former shopkeepers and bankers and such. The Jewish Agency were geniuses at buying land everyone thought was worthless and kibbutzing it into something productive. Failure meant death.”""

I dont care if you are an astronaut . My country is my country . And jusyt because youa re allowed to buy land doesnt mean at all you are allowed to build a state!!!

““Until Haj Amin started stirring up shameful fears among Palestinians, these immigrants were almost all peaceful, harmless folk who just wanted a chance to live. At that time, they regarded thug Zionists like the Irgun the same as you see Al-Queda today.””"

HWat are you talkiing about ? are you calling some man names because he resisted his country bieng taken over!!! Is this supposed to be a replica of the Native americans ?! I can see that this arrogance of they are lower than us and we can just take their land theory is embedded in alot of americans . people in teh world have same dignity and pride. You are not allowed to immigrate to a country under occupation sir!!!

““If it weren’t for jealousy and hatred and the fear mongering sown by Haj Amin and his allies, everyone could have prospered and no-one forced from their homes. Deir Yassen and all the other vengeance inspired horrors need never have happened. In the mid 1940’s, all the injustice you perceive in the Palestinian plight was reversed; all the power, all the might, all the weapons were held by the Palestinians. Radio broadcasts every day proclaimed that as soon as the British departed, the Jews would be ‘driven into the sea.’ Israeli policy to this day assumes that if they stop being strong and vigilant for 30 seconds, those days will return.””

**Again , there is a difference bieng immigrating in masses to a nation under occupation just because youa re a budyy buddy with sir Balfour who is doing jews favour because they helped him with money and science in world war one and between immigrating ligitimately to a country that accepts immigration . I bet you would panic if i walk in with 100 million muslims in the next ten years without any american peoples concent , right ?

where is the Golden rule ? do u really love for others what you love for yourself? The palestinians have everfy right to fight if they dont want those peopel to come to their land **

Continued

 

[meedo]

**Hawk

You cant be serious really

Just because one is a jew doesnt mean he own jerusalem . Or else any one can call your home his holy place and kick you out bad . Woudl you like that hawk? I bet not . **

again buying lands doenst mean you make a state . I guess every kid knwos that .

"Now I know you are lying,
How can you say this when the Quran tells you that jews are the furthest from the believers?

And the ahadith tells us that in the end days, trees and rocks will be saying “believers, there is a yehudi hiding behind me, come and kill him”

Accept the truth that Mohammed hated the jews after they betrayed him.
"
I am not lying and i think its un Christian to call me lying . The Quran verse is talking about their non belief in Jesus , and it has no relation to our oppertunity to coexist . There is nothing called to hate a person there is somthing called to hate their bad beliefs or bad deeds.

**Yes well teh apocalypse is talking about a battle at the end of days and its no difference than christianity so dont preach to me how hateful teh muslim appocalypse while christianity is the same . We dont know hwo things will develop in the fuiture but at least we try to make the current world better .

Muhamed doesnt hate any one. Even after they betrayed him . He had his jewish neighbor throw garbage at his front door every day and when he didnt find the garbage one day he went and checked out on him because he was sick . I guess this cant be someone who really hate his jewish neighbor who DAILY throws garbage at his front door right?!?!?!?!**

Peace

 

[Petergee]

meedo:

“”“Zionism was a fringe opinion among Jews until reality eliminated all other options for survival.”"

Brother, if you try to take some peoples land then you will face hard reality, and justified reality. You can come be my neighbor. Just don’t take my country. I think that’s fair. The Jews had all the chances for survival. But not a single western country wanted them all to come to it!!!

Actually one did. The Western Australian government invited Jews to migrate to north-western Australia and set up a homeland there, but very few of the Jews were interested.

I think most of your criticism of Israel in taking the Palestinians’ land is justfied. But Muslims seem to be very selective in their outrage at this. I’ve never heard one Muslim criticise Muslim Indonesians’ brutal invasion, occupation and mass immigration into tiny Christian East Timor from 1975-1999, and Christian/animist West New Guinea from 1963 to the present.

 

[meedo]

" think most of your criticism of Israel in taking the Palestinians’ land is justfied. But Muslims seem to be very selective in their outrage at this. I’ve never heard one Muslim criticise Muslim Indonesians’ brutal invasion, occupation and mass immigration into tiny Christian East Timor from 1975-1999, and Christian/animist West New Guinea from 1963 to the present."

If Muslim indonesia really did that then i condemn that and i hereby testify infront of Allah that i am happy East Timor is free. I still don’t know about this part of the world so i will read about it and get back to you .

Thank you sir for your honesty . I want to live with Peaceful non threatning Israel as my neighbor and my palestinian brothers havea state based on the United nations resoloutions of occupied terretories. That means israel have to Pull out from West Bank and Jerusalem and Golan hights and accept the palestinian refugees back to their homes in Israel according to the united nations resoloutions . That is just and fair.

Thank you

 

[Petergee]

meedo:

If Muslim indonesia really did that then i condemn that and i hereby testify infront of Allah that i am happy East Timor is free. I still don’t know about this part of the world so i will read about it and get back to you .

No “IF” about it, I assure you. I’m glad you are happy East Timor is free but according to opinion polls the great majority of Indonesian Muslims disagree. It’s sad that an obviously otherwise well-informed and educated Muslim like you doesn’t know what the most populous Muslim country is doing. When the USA does something to other countries all Christians know about it and many of us roundly condemn it.

—What is yr problem with everything teh west does?!!

Well , After so much colonialism and support for dictators and double standard foreign policies , there is little trust and many fears fgrom any thing teh west does. We take it with a ton of salt .

It’s quite bizarre the way Muslim Arabs are so annoyed about western colonialism. They were LESS affected by Western colonialism than any other part of the world. Westerners ruled many foreign countries for centuries. But Westerners liberated the Arabs from centuries of Turkish rule. Apart from Britain’s rule over Egypt 1882-1922 and France over Algeria 1830-1962, the Arab countries which the West liberated from the Turks were given independence either immediately or after a short period of League of Nations trusteeship.

And of course, Muslims in the 7th to 10th centuries invaded and permanently occupied what had been the very heartland of Christianity in the Middle East, North Africa and Asia Minor, which for centuries had had overwhelmingly Christian populations. For over a thousand years Muslims occupied vast tracts of Europe and as recently as the late 17th century they were still besieging Vienna in the very heart of Europe and seriously threatening to conquer the whole continent.

Yes that’s all history now. But TODAY, for the last 40 years Indonesia has been PAYING Javanese Indonesian Muslims to migrate to West New Guinea and forcibly take land from the native inhabitants, so that today the immigrants comprise more than a third of the population. How can any Muslim possibly complain about WESTERN colonialism?

 

[meedo]

"Indonesia alleged that the popular East Timorese FRETILIN party, which received some vocal support from the People’s Republic of China, was communist. With the American cause in South Vietnam lost and fearing a Communist domino effect in Southeast Asia, the U.S., along with ally Australia, did not object to the pro-Western Indonesian government’s actions, and despite Portugal being a NATO founding member.

The day before the invasion and subsequent annexation, U.S. President Gerald Ford and Secretary of State Henry Kissinger had met President Suharto in Jakarta where Ford made clear that “we will not press you on the issue.” Several U.S. administrations up to and including that of Bill Clinton did not ban arms sales to the Indonesian government, though the latter did eventually end U.S. support of Suharto’s regime. The territory was declared the 27th province of Indonesia in July 1976 as Timor Timur. However, internationally its legal status was that of a “non-self governing territory under Portuguese administration.”

"

Wikipedia

Hmm it seemed that the US had a role in this too.

Peter , there are people in The US who doesnt know any other thing outisde america.

It asys here that muslims are 5 % of East Timor ? If Indonesia is paying for immigrants to go there to destabilise the nation then trhats really bad and unacceptable. But may be the situation is different . Aftre all these are two adjacent countries . may be East timeor needs people for jobs or somthing.

Well if teh west wanted tor eally liberate us then he could liberate us and leave us liberated lol.

here is somthing that i found at wikipedia

"Advocates of colonialism argue that colonial rule benefits the colonized by developing the economic and political infrastructure necessary for modernization and democracy. They point to such former colonies as the United States of America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong and Singapore as examples of post-colonial success. These nations do not, however, represent the normal course of colonialism in that they are either settler societies, or tradepost cities.

Dependency theorists such as Andre Gunder Frank, on the other hand, argue that colonialism actually leads to the net transfer of wealth from the colonized to the colonizer, and inhibits successful economic development.

Critics of colonialism such as Frantz Fanon and Aime Cesaire argue that colonialism does political, psychological, and moral damage to the colonized as well.

More critically, Indian writer and political activist Arundhati Roy said that debating the pros and cons of colonialism/imperialism “is a bit like debating the pros and cons of rape”.

"

Can u give me the link for what is the Indonesian government doing n East timeor as you say now? Thank you

peace

 

[Petergee]

Hmm it seemed that the US had a role in this too.

A “role” in ignoring the Indonesian invasion and occupation, yes. A very shameful role too. But it was the Indonesians who committed the crime.

Peter , there are people in The US who doesnt know any other thing outisde america.

Sadly, yes indeed. But I said that when the US invades a country, all Christians at least know that it has happened. I’m sure even the dimmest American knows that the US invaded Iraq, even if they can’t find Iraq on a map. But my point was that I am dismayed that an obviously otherwise well-informed Muslim like you did not know about the Indonesian invasion and colonization of East Timor and West New Guinea.

It asys here that muslims are 5 % of East Timor ? If Indonesia is paying for immigrants to go there to destabilise the nation then trhats really bad and unacceptable. But may be the situation is different . Aftre all these are two adjacent countries . may be East timeor needs people for jobs or somthing.

You are confusing East Timor with West New Guinea. East Timor now is free, and yes it has a small Muslim population as a legacy of the Indonesian occupation. Most of the Muslim immigrants left when East Timor voted for independence. Shamefully many of them stole and took with them to Indonesia all the East Timorese assets they could carry, and burned much of the rest. The East Timorese however do not hold all Muslims responsible for these crimes, and even elected a Muslim as their Prime Minister. Fretilin is not a communist party. It encourages religion and free enterprise.

Amnesty International says hundreds of thousannds of native New Guineans have been killed by Indonesian government-sponsored violence. Millions of Javanese Muslims have settled in New Guinea. Actually since the 2000 financial crisis the Indonesian govt is no longer paying them to migrate though it still encourages them. The New Guineans do not need the migrants and never asked for them, in fact they have continually protested against the migration.

In contrast, Australia, which ruled the Eastern half of New Guinea under UN trusteeship, never attempted mass migration to it and granted it independence in 1975.

see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Papua

Well if teh west wanted tor eally liberate us then he could liberate us and leave us liberated lol.

Well didn’t they? Or are you going to tell us that the establishment of Israel and the US-led invasion of Iraq (which I and most Christians strongly condemn) are part of some vast Western “Christian” conspiracy to colonise the Arab countries??

And you are aware that the majority of Christians are not “White”?

Why do you want to “debate the pros and cons of colonialism/imperialism”? It should be obvious I assumed colonialism is a bad thing. Rather I was pointing out the inconsistency of Muslim Arabs complaining endlessly about Western colonialism, which hardly affected them, while they ignore the current brutal colonialism by the largest Muslim country.