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When was it decided that the headquarters for the church is to be in Rome?
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M
MartinJordan
Guest
Fixed.:harp:Godā¦Rome was the instrument by which Christianity was to conquer the world with LOVE.
MJ
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jas84173
Guest
Well technically speaking it didnāt happen until 1054. Prior to that you had five āequalā bishops in Rome, Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem. Following the fall of western Rome, the bishop of Rome became much more powerful politically, and assuming he had more power because that was where Peter and Paul were killed, many in the eastern churches felt angered, this went on for hundreds of years. Eventually different aspects of the sides changed, until in 1054 the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches were officially separate as both sides excommunicated each other. In reality though, Rome always was noted as the stronghold of the church, even before the east-west schism. Many people believe Alexandria was never taken seriously because some bishops from there seemed to have a positive outlook on Gnosticism.
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spina1953
Guest
Even when the Popes for a time were in Avignon they were stiff called Bishop of Rome as well as Pope.
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cmodrmac
Guest
I assume that the ākeysā are a metaphor -can you elaborate on that for me
Thank you
Thank you
W
Wesrock
Guest
Isaiah 22:22. The keys were held by the āprime ministerā of the Davidic Kingdom. He had the authority to shut doors that none shall open (bind) and open doors that none shall shut (loose). How far you want to take this is up to you, but itās pretty clear Jesus was quoting Isaiah when he spoke to Peter.I assume that the ākeysā are a metaphor -can you elaborate on that for me
Thank you
The PM in Isaiahās time wasnāt in his favor, so he spoke of him dying, and his office (and the keys) being passed to a successor. The office isnāt elaborated on much more in the Bible, but Iāve heard talks that quoted other Jewish sources that spoke of this office.
Matthew first writes of Jesus giving Peter the power to bind and loose singularly, and then later he speaks to his apostles as a whole. The RCC sees this as the Papacy being the keys singularly, and the Church being given the keys as a whole, to decide things in council.
As for the Patriarchs, there was more than one, and they were kind of mini-popes, but the RCC holds that the patriarch of Rome still had primacy even over the other patriarchs. This primacy was attested to prior to the schism between east and west, (though there were those who argued against it) and even the Orthodox Churches today largely acknowledge that the Bishop of Rome does have primacy at least in honor, even if they disagree on the Bishop of Rome having greater hierarchal authority over other bishops.
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cmodrmac
Guest
Thank you
K
KathleenGee
Guest
There was a certain pope who was a former slaveā¦did accounting for the Church, made some mistakes, did public restitutionā¦and eventually became pope.
There was a bishop who followed set norm regarding a slave in his dioceseā¦sorry, right now donāt have all the detailsā¦
The pope wanted leniency for the slaveā¦but the bishop disagreed with the popeā¦and the pope in turn excommunicated the bishop. In time, other bishops came to the pope to request the bishop be returned to communion and he was.
But when the pope first excommunicated the bishop the Christian world readily accepted his decree.
But papal authority is also united with the bishops. And both are to take the position of āServant of Godāā¦
Quiet acquiescence to the papacy goes way back into ancient time.
Again, it was primarily Jewish/Hebrew/Nazarene Christians who fled the Romans in Israel and settled in Rome in home churches with presbytersā¦these consecrated by their bishops.
About Peter holding the keys to heavenā¦the ancient Jewish Christians in those times knew very well for those 100 years what the holding the key meant. You go back to Isaiah 22:22, as referenced here beforeā¦the person who held the key in town was the sign of authority and he would wear a large key on his person as his identity before the Jewish community.
Peter spent about 40 years among the Nazarene and orthodox Jews before going to Antioch to found a church there. The Church of Alexandria and Antioch were both of one place vs the many home locations found in Rome. SS Peter and Paul died between 64 AD to 67 AD. Peter also referred to Rome as Babylon, and Israel herself was referred as Babylon two times for her infidelity and falling away.
SS Peter and Paul came to Romeā¦solely for the purpose of founding the Church and having no regard or interest in founding a Church tied to imperialism.
The Byzantine Church had a different development. The emperor of Rome moved the headquarters to Western Asia Minor to escape barbarian hordesā¦and there the worst persecutions against Christians happened there in 302 ADā¦most bishops and churches were destroyed.
Constantine defeated the Roman emperorā¦and assisted in choosing those with leadership skills to become bishops as well as assist in the rebuilding of many churchesā¦Basilicasā¦in the roundā¦with high altar and pulpits. The Latin church formats were more like a long center aisle and near the front another aisle going left and rightā¦so looking down the aisles made the sacred space look like congregation around the cross.
So in this contextā¦the Byzantine Church was closely associated with imperial power. And if disputes came back to Romeā¦then Rome would always decide against any form of imperialismā¦the Patriarch of Constantinopleā¦second in headship.
There was a bishop who followed set norm regarding a slave in his dioceseā¦sorry, right now donāt have all the detailsā¦
The pope wanted leniency for the slaveā¦but the bishop disagreed with the popeā¦and the pope in turn excommunicated the bishop. In time, other bishops came to the pope to request the bishop be returned to communion and he was.
But when the pope first excommunicated the bishop the Christian world readily accepted his decree.
But papal authority is also united with the bishops. And both are to take the position of āServant of Godāā¦
Quiet acquiescence to the papacy goes way back into ancient time.
Again, it was primarily Jewish/Hebrew/Nazarene Christians who fled the Romans in Israel and settled in Rome in home churches with presbytersā¦these consecrated by their bishops.
About Peter holding the keys to heavenā¦the ancient Jewish Christians in those times knew very well for those 100 years what the holding the key meant. You go back to Isaiah 22:22, as referenced here beforeā¦the person who held the key in town was the sign of authority and he would wear a large key on his person as his identity before the Jewish community.
Peter spent about 40 years among the Nazarene and orthodox Jews before going to Antioch to found a church there. The Church of Alexandria and Antioch were both of one place vs the many home locations found in Rome. SS Peter and Paul died between 64 AD to 67 AD. Peter also referred to Rome as Babylon, and Israel herself was referred as Babylon two times for her infidelity and falling away.
SS Peter and Paul came to Romeā¦solely for the purpose of founding the Church and having no regard or interest in founding a Church tied to imperialism.
The Byzantine Church had a different development. The emperor of Rome moved the headquarters to Western Asia Minor to escape barbarian hordesā¦and there the worst persecutions against Christians happened there in 302 ADā¦most bishops and churches were destroyed.
Constantine defeated the Roman emperorā¦and assisted in choosing those with leadership skills to become bishops as well as assist in the rebuilding of many churchesā¦Basilicasā¦in the roundā¦with high altar and pulpits. The Latin church formats were more like a long center aisle and near the front another aisle going left and rightā¦so looking down the aisles made the sacred space look like congregation around the cross.
So in this contextā¦the Byzantine Church was closely associated with imperial power. And if disputes came back to Romeā¦then Rome would always decide against any form of imperialismā¦the Patriarch of Constantinopleā¦second in headship.
I
IGotQuestions
Guest
Wealth of information you folks are giving.
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