JCPhoenix:
God can always hear us.
I am not closing the door on the saints…I pray to them frequently and have recieved answers directly from them. (I will not discuss this).
But do you think that would happen if God did not will it? Do you think that he does not hear or know what we are saying?
God hears and knows all. He is the One Whose existence we participate in. All that happens only happens because He allows it.
JCPhoenix:
Yes, when we pray to the saints, we are praying directly to the Saints,
Thank you for clarifying.
JCPhoenix:
but our salvation is not within their authority…
That is not true. It is true that Jesus purchased our redemption, and only by His blood have our sins been forgiven, but it does not follow that our salvation is not in the power of others.
Jude 1:23 But others save, pulling them out of the fire. And on others have mercy, in fear, hating also the spotted garment which is carnal.
We play an important role in the salvation of others. Likewise, the saints play a role in our salvation. But all is built on the foundation of Christ. Yet, what we build on that foundation is to our credit and others’ salvation, if it endures:
1 Cor 3:6 I have planted, Apollo watered, but God gave the increase. 7 Therefore, neither he that planteth is any thing, nor he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. 8 Now he that planteth, and he that watereth, ate one. And
every man shall receive his own reward, according to his own labour. 9 For we are God’s coadjutors: you are God’s husbandry; you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God that is given to me, as a wise architect, I have laid the foundation; and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid; which is Christ Jesus. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble: 13 Every man’s work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work, of what sort it is. 14
If any man’s work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man’s work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.
So, yes God causes all to happen, but we are rewarded according to our participation and cooperation.
JCPhoenix:
we are praying for INTERCESSION,
You seem to stress this as if we can ask for nothing else.
What about asking for the fruits of their past intercession? For example, Mary obtained the grace of perseverance for those who wear her brown scapular. She obtained graces for those who pray her rosary.
JCPhoenix:
for assistance, etc. They are our friends in high places and they answer…but God hears and knows all.
Certainly.
JCPhoenix:
I’m sorry you took my prior post to mean that I have shut the Saints out of the equation and left no room, however, let me remind you of this: When we pray the rosary, it is a meditation on the life of Christ. This is a prayer to God through Mary.
The rosary is a treasure house. It can be totally focused on Christ, since all Mary did was related to Christ. But it can also be totally focused on the Eternal Father, who provided all. And it can be focused on Mary in that it happened to her. Etc. It may also depend on whether you pray it slow or fast or alone or with a group. I personally spend most of my time thanking the Father on behalf of Mary, but I also congratulate the Archangel and St. Elizabeth, and welcome Mary in my heart directly. During the sorrowful mysteries I focus on the contrast between the incarnation and each sorrowful mystery. But there are many options here. It is probably infinite.
JCPhoenix:
We are united in the Communion of Saints and the buck stops at God.
Does that help?
Yes