When you die in islam, what happens to your soul?

[fatuma]

Allah, the Exalted, has given every man a free will to choose between good and evil. It is up to the individual, whether he takes enough good deeds to accompany him in his grave, or he chooses to carry the burden of evil deeds. This choice of evil and good is only valid as long as one is alive. With your last breath you can not ask for forgiveness, because God had given you a mercy called time, what you do with it is your choice.

wa salam

 

[Monarchy]

Roche42:

I cannot speak for Islam because I am not a Muslim, but I would imagine, since a lot of Muslim and Catholic philosophy comes to the same conclusions about God, since both seek truth. It is best not to look at Hell only as a punishment, but as a choice. Those who have not led lives that honor God do not possess the character of soul to enjoy eternal paradise. If you shunned God in life then certainly your soul will not be capable of comprehending the glory of God in heaven. Hell is simply the absence of God, the absence of all that is good, rational, and just. On Earth people may live a life that doesn’t recognize God, but his presence is still felt, in Hell people have chosen to live without God. C.S. Lewis wrote pretty eloquently on it, I would recommend reading his writing, I had many misconceptions and philosophical problems with Hell, but his explanation in Mere Christianity made much more sense to me.

Bible makes it pretty clear, ‘lake of fire’ and all, that it’s eternal torture.

 

[fatuma]

God is Merciful, when you go to hell, you have earned that hell.

wa salam

ps: I was thinking about this the other day, about why there are more women in hell then men, what I came up was this. There are sins and then there are sins. Sins have a grade level or degree of 'badness’. In Islam one of the worst sins that can be committed or the sin with one of the worst punishment is backbiting, gossiping, ease dropping and the spreading of rumors. These are extra grave sins to commit and since it is women who largely partake in these things…

wa salam

 

[Roche42]

Monarchy:

Bible makes it pretty clear, ‘lake of fire’ and all, that it’s eternal torture.

Aha, I said to view it “not only as a punishment”, the Bible clearly references physical actual eternal fire in Hell. Once again, however, this is the natural consequence of God’s absence. Hell would be populated with individuals who seek pleasure in the physical world, outside of God. No lasting pleasure is possible without God, thus all that is left is eternal physical pain, ie hellfire. This is fairly general description, as there are many different theories that hopefully none of us will ever be able to test. Once again you just have to realize that God is the source of all good, and then picture a place devoid of God–it would contain nothing that is good, only anguish. An anguish which one chooses by rejecting God.

 

[Monarchy]

Roche42:

Aha, I said to view it “not only as a punishment”, the Bible clearly references physical actual eternal fire in Hell. Once again, however, this is the natural consequence of God’s absence. Hell would be populated with individuals who seek pleasure in the physical world, outside of God. No lasting pleasure is possible without God, thus all that is left is eternal physical pain, ie hellfire. This is fairly general description, as there are many different theories that hopefully none of us will ever be able to test. Once again you just have to realize that God is the source of all good, and then picture a place devoid of God–it would contain nothing that is good, only anguish. An anguish which one chooses by rejecting God.

God is also the source of ALL evil. NO ONE deserves eternal torture. God is still culpable as far as you say because he created and allows people to go to hell. If he were acctually as ‘merciful’ as you claim he is, non-existance would be the fate of those not slated to go to heaven.

 

[iamrefreshed]

Monarchy:

God is also the source of ALL evil. NO ONE deserves eternal torture. God is still culpable as far as you say because he created and allows people to go to hell. If he were acctually as ‘merciful’ as you claim he is, non-existance would be the fate of those not slated to go to heaven.

May I ask a personal and blunt question?

Assuming you said yes… and feel free to ignore it if you said no…

Why are you a member of a Catholic website?

 

[Roche42]

Evil is the absence of all good, not a tangible creation of God. It seems you are now switching your argument over to the problem of evil. If it is something that is really bothering you, I would suggest you read some St. Thomas Aquinas, as he tackles the problem of evil quite heavily. Peter Kreeft-http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0019.html , deals with it as does Alvin Plantiga, who, if I’m not mistaken, is an athiest. Sorry I can’t give you better references but my entire library is packed up already and I cannot possibly argue as eloquently as the men I mentioned above, hopefully the Kreeft article helps.

 

[Eetaq]

Monarchy:

God is also the source of ALL evil. NO ONE deserves eternal torture. God is still culpable as far as you say because he created and allows people to go to hell. If he were acctually as ‘merciful’ as you claim he is, non-existance would be the fate of those not slated to go to heaven.

jehovas witnesses and 7th day adventists believe that.

Wrong place buddy.

And it can easily be argued that the only reason we arent all going to Hell is because of Gods mercy.

Monarchy I challenge you to a duel. Lets debate this.

My 1st argument:

It is only because of the infinite justice that is given out by God that there is both a heaven and a Hell. IF all were to go to heaven then there would be no glory in it.

And I noticed you said that non-existance would be merciful. How is that better than Hell? Just because you happen to view an eternal torture as worse than not even existing doesnt mean its the case. Many people choose a life in Prison over a death sentence, which is the same as choosing eternity in Hell over non-existance.

 

[Nan_S]

Monarchy:

God is also the source of ALL evil. NO ONE deserves eternal torture. God is still culpable as far as you say because he created and allows people to go to hell. If he were acctually as ‘merciful’ as you claim he is, non-existance would be the fate of those not slated to go to heaven.

Interesting angle. Peaceful oblivion in total ignorance of God’s glorious heaven. That does sound better than the pain of eternally knowing what you lost when you intentionally rejected heaven.

One problem: we are all above the age of reason, and certainly well above the age of awareness. We, all of us, already know too much to try for eternal nothingness in ignorance.

That leaves us the choice of heaven or hell. For my part, I intend to try for heaven.

 

[Monarchy]

Nan S:

One problem: we are all above the age of reason, and certainly well above the age of awareness. We, all of us, already know too much to try for eternal nothingness in ignorance.

So God can’t simply cause souls to not exist? I thought he was supposed to be all powerful?

 

[Monarchy]

Eetaq:

jehovas witnesses and 7th day adventists believe that.

Really. Well then they both go up a notch on my scale, not that they were very high to begin with.

And it can easily be argued that the only reason we arent all going to Hell is because of Gods mercy.

A truely merciful God would not even allow a place of enternal torture to exist

Monarchy I challenge you to a duel. Lets debate this.

pulls out dueling pistol, walks 10 paces and turns

okay

My 1st argument:

It is only because of the infinite justice that is given out by God that there is both a heaven and a Hell. IF all were to go to heaven then there would be no glory in it.

So People are tortured for Glory? I suppose that makes sense, God does love Blood and guts and pain, but that’s exactly why I rejuect the christian religion.

And I noticed you said that non-existance would be merciful. How is that better than Hell?

Well lets see… Enternal pain and suffering vs. no pain and suffering. That’s a hard one.

Just because you happen to view an eternal torture as worse than not even existing doesnt mean its the case.

Really? How?

Many people choose a life in Prison over a death sentence, which is the same as choosing eternity in Hell over non-existance.

And many people choose to die rather than face a life of constant pain from a disease. What’s your point?

 

[Nan_S]

Monarchy:

So God can’t simply cause souls to not exist? I thought he was supposed to be all powerful?

That’s circular logic, like asking if God could create a rock that was too heavy for Him to lift.

The human soul is immortal. Angels are immortal. Fallen angels (devils/demons) are immortal. God created them immortal. To later change His mind and destroy certain ones would be a contradiction to God’s basic nature. That’s why God can’t cause souls to not exist.

The key here is recognizing the one limitation which God places upon Himself. God can not be inconsistent with Himself; He can not be unfaithful to His creation.

Romans 3:3-6 What if some were unfaithful? Will their infidelity nullify the fidelity of God? Of course not! God must be true, though every human being is a liar, as it is written: “That you may be justified in your words, and conquer when you are judged.” But if our wickedness provides proof of God’s righteousness, what can we say? Is God unjust, humanly speaking, to inflict his wrath? Of course not! For how else is God to judge the world?

2 Tim 2:11-13 This saying is trustworthy: If we have died with him we shall also live with him; if we persevere we shall also reign with him. But if we deny him he will deny us. If we are unfaithful he remains faithful, for he cannot deny himself.**

Now there are other scriptures that say God does change His mind - in certain circumstances only, but I’ll address that right now before anyone takes them out of context and throws them back at me. Those scriptures all relate times when God threatened punishment, people repented and set aside their evil-doing, and God withdrew the threatened punishment. God did not change His basic nature, nor was He unfaithful when He withdrew the punishments. Rather, He fulfilled His nature by withdrawing the threatened punishments when the people repented and returned to Him.

 

[Monarchy]

Nan S:

That’s circular logic, like asking if God could create a rock that was too heavy for Him to lift.

No it isn’t. What you just stated is an example of a contradiction.

---

Circulus in demonstrando

This fallacy occurs if you assume as a premise the conclusion which you wish to reach. Often, the proposition is rephrased so that the fallacy appears to be a valid argument. For example:

“Homosexuals must not be allowed to hold government office. Hence any government official who is revealed to be a homosexual will lose his job. Therefore homosexuals will do anything to hide their secret, and will be open to blackmail. Therefore homosexuals cannot be allowed to hold government office.”
Note that the argument is entirely circular; the premise is the same as the conclusion. An argument like the above has actually been cited as the reason for the British Secret Services’ official ban on homosexual employees.

Circular arguments are surprisingly common, unfortunately. If you’ve already reached a particular conclusion once, it’s easy to accidentally make it an assertion when explaining your reasoning to someone else.

The human soul is immortal. Angels are immortal. Fallen angels (devils/demons) are immortal. God created them immortal.

Your proof is? Can you even prove that something such as a soul exists?

To later change His mind and destroy certain ones would be a contradiction to God’s basic nature. That’s why God can’t cause souls to not exist.

God Can’t? But:

Mt 19:26 …with God all things are possible.

The key here is recognizing the one limitation which God places upon Himself. God can not be inconsistent with Himself; He can not be unfaithful to His creation.

See above.

Now there are other scriptures that say God does change His mind - in certain circumstances only, but I’ll address that right now before anyone takes them out of context and throws them back at me. Those scriptures all relate times when God threatened punishment, people repented and set aside their evil-doing, and God withdrew the threatened punishment. God did not change His basic nature, nor was He unfaithful when He withdrew the punishments. Rather, He fulfilled His nature by withdrawing the threatened punishments when the people repented and returned to Him.

The scriptures were created by man and therfore say one thing in one chapter, and then the complete opposite in another.

How is eternal torture, in other words one being facing more pain then all living things that ever existed, a just act?

 

[Nan_S]

Monarchy:

So God can’t simply cause souls to not exist? I thought he was supposed to be all powerful?
Nan S:

The human soul is immortal. Angels are immortal. Fallen angels (devils/demons) are immortal. God created them immortal.

Monarchy:

Your proof is? Can you even prove that something such as a soul exists?

Diversionary tactic. Nice try. Your original question presumed the possibility that souls DO exist. I answered in the same mode.

Can you prove that souls DO NOT exist? Because if you can’t, you have to allow for the possibility that you have one yourself. And if you COULD have an immortal soul, why do you want to put immortal life at risk?
Nan S:

The key here is recognizing the one limitation which God places upon Himself. God can not be inconsistent with Himself; He can not be unfaithful to His creation.

Monarchy:

God Can’t? But: Mt 19:26 …with God all things

are possible.

Out-of-context quote snippet. Another nice try. In Mt 19:26 Jesus was talking about whether sinful humans can enter heaven, not about God’s basic nature. I’ve already given you the scriptures that explain God’s nature. You didn’t address them.

Monarchy:

The scriptures were created by man and therfore say one thing in one chapter, and then the complete opposite in another.

And your proof for lack of divine oversight in scripture is?

Whole books have been written explaining why apparent biblical contradictions are not contradictions. Here’s one: Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties Give it a read and get back to me later.

Monarchy:

How is eternal torture, in other words one being facing more pain then all living things that ever existed, a just act?

Au contraire, it is EXTREMELY just. Not merciful, but very much just. You chose it, you insisted, you got it. God won’t enslave you and force you to take what you don’t want.

 

[Monarchy]

Nan S:

Diversionary tactic. Nice try. Your original question presumed the possibility that souls DO exist. I answered in the same mode.

Can you prove that souls DO NOT exist? Because if you can’t, you have to allow for the possibility that you have one yourself. And if you COULD have an immortal soul, why do you want to put immortal life at risk?

You are acctualy using Pascal’s Wager? How do I know that Your religion is the true one? You have NO proof that it is.

Out-of-context quote snippet. Another nice try. In Mt 19:26 Jesus was talking about whether sinful humans can enter heaven, not about God’s basic nature. I’ve already given you the scriptures that explain God’s nature. You didn’t address them.
And your proof for lack of divine oversight in scripture is?

The fact it was written by man about 400 A.D. (NT anyways)

Whole books have been written explaining why apparent biblical contradictions are not contradictions. Here’s one: Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties Give it a read and get back to me later.

Okay which Creation myth is true? Genisis 1 or 2

Au contraire, it is EXTREMELY just. Not merciful, but very much just. You chose it, you insisted, you got it. God won’t enslave you and force you to take what you don’t want.

No it isn’t. Hitler doesn’t even deserve eternal torture and he was a monster. A choice with a threat is not a choice.

 

[Nan_S]

Monarchy:

You are acctualy using Pascal’s Wager? How do I know that Your religion is the true one? You have NO proof that it is.

Name the argument and quickly change the subject. Another dodge. I’m not falling for it.

Pascal’s wager is about acknowledging that God, the human soul, and the afterlife could exist, and deciding whether what we have to gain in the afterlife is worth the cost in the current life. Pascal’s Wager itself has absolutely nothing to do with deciding which religion/church/belief system we ascribe to; that’s a follow-on question for those who have already decided that God, etc., could exist.

So, I ask you again, can you prove that souls DO NOT exist? Because if you can’t, you have to allow for the possibility that you have one yourself. And if you COULD have an immortal soul, why do you want to put immortal life at risk?

Monarchy:

Nan S:

And your proof for lack of divine oversight in scripture is?

The fact it was written by man about 400 A.D. (NT anyways)

That answer explains a lot. Whoever taught you history was sadly mistaken; I’m sorry that you didn’t know enough at the time to have whoever it was validate their claims.

The NT was compiled in its final form between 320 and 380AD, by church councils that tested the available ecclesiastical writings for authorship and authenticity. The manuscripts they accepted were only those which could be proven to be written by the Jesus’ apostles themselves or their scribes during the first century AD. (Paul was accepted as an apostle by Peter et. al., commissioned by Jesus after his resurrection.) In other words, all the NT books are first-person eyewitness accounts of Jesus and His teachings. And there are plenty of first- through fourth-century historians who validate that.

Monarchy:

Okay which Creation myth is true? Genisis 1 or 2

Both. Genesis 1:1 through 2:3 is the “big picture” story that teaches God created the universe and everything in it. Genesis 2:4 and beyond teaches about God’s particular relationship with mankind. Whether the seven “days” of creation represent seven phases/periods or seven literal 24-hour periods has been debated endlessly; officially the Catholic Church takes no position on the issue, although most Catholics I know believe the earth is millions of years old.

Monarchy:

No it isn’t. Hitler doesn’t even deserve eternal torture and he was a monster. A choice with a threat is not a choice.

Maybe he is, maybe he isn’t. I’m not qualified to make that judgement. What makes you think you are?

I see no threat here. A threat would be: “if you don’t believe, God will zombie-ize you and make you believe.” To making you aware of the potential consequences of your action and then let you choose what to do is the most un-threatening thing anyone can do.

 

[Booklover]

puzzleannie:

thank you Fatuma for offering this information - the question has been asked several times on this forum and it helps to have your (name removed by moderator)ut

This has nothing to do with the thread! Puzzleannie, just wanted to let you know how I enjoyed your quote at the bottom of your posts. I love it! I can just see the scene in “The Longest Day” where that appeared! Hilarious isn’t it?