Where did Jesus go between his death and resurrection?

[coracobb]

What the Church teaches:

“HE DESCENDED INTO HELL. ON THE THIRD DAY HE ROSE AGAIN”

CCC 631 Jesus “descended into the lower parts of the earth. He who descended is he who also ascended far above all the heavens.” The Apostles’ Creed confesses in the same article Christ’s descent into hell and his Resurrection from the dead on the third day, because in his Passover it was precisely out of the depths of death that he made life spring forth:

Christ, that Morning Star, who came back from the dead, and shed his peaceful light on all mankind, your Son who lives and reigns for ever and ever. Amen.

Paragraph 1. Christ Descended into Hell

CCC 632 The frequent New Testament affirmations that Jesus was “raised from the dead” presuppose that the crucified one sojourned in the realm of the dead prior to his resurrection. This was the first meaning given in the apostolic preaching to Christ’s descent into hell: that Jesus, like all men, experienced death and in his soul joined the others in the realm of the dead. But he descended there as Savior, proclaiming the Good News to the spirits imprisoned there.

CCC 633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell” - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God. Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into “Abraham’s bosom”: “It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell.” Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.

CCC 634 “The gospel was preached even to the dead.” The descent into hell brings the Gospel message of salvation to complete fulfilment. This is the last phase of Jesus’ messianic mission, a phase which is condensed in time but vast in its real significance: the spread of Christ’s redemptive work to all men of all times and all places, for all who are saved have been made sharers in the redemption.

CCC 635 Christ went down into the depths of death so that “the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.” Jesus, “the Author of life”, by dying destroyed "him who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and [delivered] all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage."Henceforth the risen Christ holds “the keys of Death and Hades”, so that “at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth.”

Today a great silence reigns on earth, a great silence and a great stillness. A great silence because the King is asleep. The earth trembled and is still because God has fallen asleep in the flesh and he has raised up all who have slept ever since the world began. . . He has gone to search for Adam, our first father, as for a lost sheep. Greatly desiring to visit those who live in darkness and in the shadow of death, he has gone to free from sorrow Adam in his bonds and Eve, captive with him - He who is both their God and the son of Eve. . . “I am your God, who for your sake have become your son. . . I order you, O sleeper, to awake. I did not create you to be a prisoner in hell. Rise from the dead, for I am the life of the dead.”

Your comments and information from the Catechism are greatly appreciated. Thank you for taking the time to write all this. God Bless and Keep You.

 

[coracobb]

What the Church teaches:

“HE DESCENDED INTO HELL. ON THE THIRD DAY HE ROSE AGAIN”

CCC 631 Jesus “descended into the lower parts of the earth. He who descended is he who also ascended far above all the heavens.” The Apostles’ Creed confesses in the same article Christ’s descent into hell and his Resurrection from the dead on the third day, because in his Passover it was precisely out of the depths of death that he made life spring forth:

Christ, that Morning Star, who came back from the dead, and shed his peaceful light on all mankind, your Son who lives and reigns for ever and ever. Amen.

Paragraph 1. Christ Descended into Hell

CCC 632 The frequent New Testament affirmations that Jesus was “raised from the dead” presuppose that the crucified one sojourned in the realm of the dead prior to his resurrection. This was the first meaning given in the apostolic preaching to Christ’s descent into hell: that Jesus, like all men, experienced death and in his soul joined the others in the realm of the dead. But he descended there as Savior, proclaiming the Good News to the spirits imprisoned there.

CCC 633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell” - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God. Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into “Abraham’s bosom”: “It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell.” Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.

CCC 634 “The gospel was preached even to the dead.” The descent into hell brings the Gospel message of salvation to complete fulfilment. This is the last phase of Jesus’ messianic mission, a phase which is condensed in time but vast in its real significance: the spread of Christ’s redemptive work to all men of all times and all places, for all who are saved have been made sharers in the redemption.

CCC 635 Christ went down into the depths of death so that “the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.” Jesus, “the Author of life”, by dying destroyed "him who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and [delivered] all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage."Henceforth the risen Christ holds “the keys of Death and Hades”, so that “at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth.”

Today a great silence reigns on earth, a great silence and a great stillness. A great silence because the King is asleep. The earth trembled and is still because God has fallen asleep in the flesh and he has raised up all who have slept ever since the world began. . . He has gone to search for Adam, our first father, as for a lost sheep. Greatly desiring to visit those who live in darkness and in the shadow of death, he has gone to free from sorrow Adam in his bonds and Eve, captive with him - He who is both their God and the son of Eve. . . “I am your God, who for your sake have become your son. . . I order you, O sleeper, to awake. I did not create you to be a prisoner in hell. Rise from the dead, for I am the life of the dead.”

Your comments and information from the Catechism are greatly appreciated. Thank you for taking the time to write all this. God Bless and Keep You. Cora

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I think he went to Purgatory. Hades was not for the damned but for the people awaiting the resurrection of Christ so that they could come into heaven. There were a lot of dead people hanging around in Hades that weren’t evil, but before Christ there was no resurrection of the dead.

 

[vicwestlad]

crazzeto:

No, why would I? .

I think you should think it strange. These are arguably the most important three days in the history of humanity. Jesus was “dead” for three days and was “in the heart of the earth” for three days, yet no one knows what he was doing or what state he was in. When he rose from the dead, don’t you think the disciples would have asked him what it was like when he was dead? Don’t you think they’d be fascinated to know what he did? I certainly would be. It’s hard to imagine that this was never talked about and if it was talked about then it would have been known, repeated, transmitted through oral tradition and then recorded in the gospels.

crazzeto:

Yes, Moses and everyone else

Everyone else? So Adam and Eve, Noah, Moses, Daniel, etc. Makes me wonder what conversations they had. That would be fascinating. I mean, Adam and Eve would have been roaming around for thousands of years waiting for Jesus. I can only imagine they would have been very bored. They weren’t suffering and it wasn’t really blissful and they really had nothing to do. It’s very interesting to think about.

crazzeto:

From what I understand, yes they might well have been in exactly the same realm… Perhaps a less comfortable version, based upon Jesus’s parable of Lazerus. But based upon what I understand, there wasn’t an idea yet, necessarly of heaven v. hell for human souls.

Yes but based on Lazarus and the rich man, the other area was one of torment. How could supposedly “wicked” people be in torment day and night for thousands of years when we haven’t yet had the final judgment? Are they going to be judged a second time?

crazzeto:

Souls ignorant of Christ to this very day can make it to heaven, we as Catholics have faith that God has some mechinism which allows them to be saved. We already know that when Christ was crusified Gods Grace was poured out on the world like water. If souls ignorant of Christ today can make it to heaven, I have no problem believeing souls ignorant of Christ because he hadn’t been born yet also made it to heaven.

That wasn’t the question though. The question was where did they go before Christ died. Obviously people who never heard of him didn’t die and go to heaven, so where did they go?

 

[vicwestlad]

he descended to the dead preached the gospel there to those who had died before the promise of the covenant arrived

But the question was, when the catechism says he descended to “hell” do they mean hell hell or do they mean some other hell that isn’t where the wicked will be sent for eternity?

 

[vicwestlad]

GEddie:

The 3 days were not for Jesus’ benefit. He had said to his companion in death, “Today you will be with me in paradise,” not “Three days from now.” Ergo, whatever He did in “Hell,” He was going to be out of it and leading that person to Heaven long before the three days were over…

Well that brings up another problem. How would the thief get into heaven before Jesus had risen from the dead? Remember, when he met Mary Magdalene he said not to touch him because he had not ascended to heaven yet. And it seems a little strange that when Jesus said he’d be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights, that part of that time he would have been in heaven.

GEddie:

Jesus was master of time as well as death. He could have awakened His body while He was being lowered from the cross, or while being shrouded, or at any other time.

Why did He not do so? Probably, because if He had, everybody would believe He had in fact not died at all, but only blacked out. As with His friend Lazarus, the 3 days of death became proof positive that He had indeed tasted death, as we all will, but that for Him it had not taken. Thereby, becoming the hope of His fellow human beings as they face the hideosity of death.

So he disappeared for three days to throw off the skeptics? I’d say those who watched him die on the cross would have been pretty convinced just two days later. I don’t think a third day would have been required.

I’m a little disappointed that you didn’t respond to some of my other points. I’ll remind you here in case you just missed them.

1. Do you not think the disciples would have asked where he was for the three days? Would they not have been curious what he did or what things looked like? Wouldn’t YOU have asked? I would have. I don’t think it’s probable that this fascinating piece of information would not have been passed on through oral tradition.

And my initial three questions for you. Are you really unable to answer them in any coherent way?

1. Who would have been in this place where souls were waiting to go to heaven? Adam, Noah?
2. How about the wicked people? Where would they have been?
3. How about those who lived before Jesus or in other parts of the world where they’d never heard of him. Were they waiting to go to heaven too and were they let out when Jesus descended to this netherworld?

They seem like valid and important questions to me.

 

[vicwestlad]

The old name in English for this was “the harrowing of Hell”.

The medievals were fond of dramatic pictures of Jesus preaching to the patriarchs and matriarchs, being reunited with Joseph, being nice to Adam and Eve as He led them out, and smashing demons beneath his feet.

There are other pictures showing Jesus marching out of His tomb with all the righteous dead lined up behind him, coming out two by two. More dramatic pictures show the gates of Hell as a gigantic demon mouth, or a huge whale, out of which the dead walk behind Jesus and His banner. A lot of this came from equally dramatic poetic renditions of the story.

Art appreciation class. Comes in really useful when it comes to religion.

Hi Mintaka. I’m curious. You seem to be taking a light hearted approach to this, which is fine by me but do you actually think these popular portrayals are just nonsense, or do you think they contain historical truths? If so, how much truth do you think there is to these images? Do you think Jesus did free Adam and Eve, and Noah and Moses? Do you think he “preached” to them and others in hell/hades?

 

[vicwestlad]

What the Church teaches:

“HE DESCENDED INTO HELL. ON THE THIRD DAY HE ROSE AGAIN”

CCC 631 Jesus “descended into the lower parts of the earth. He who descended is he who also ascended far above all the heavens.” The Apostles’ Creed confesses in the same article Christ’s descent into hell and his Resurrection from the dead on the third day, because in his Passover it was precisely out of the depths of death that he made life spring forth:

Christ, that Morning Star, who came back from the dead, and shed his peaceful light on all mankind, your Son who lives and reigns for ever and ever. Amen.

Paragraph 1. Christ Descended into Hell

CCC 632 The frequent New Testament affirmations that Jesus was “raised from the dead” presuppose that the crucified one sojourned in the realm of the dead prior to his resurrection. This was the first meaning given in the apostolic preaching to Christ’s descent into hell: that Jesus, like all men, experienced death and in his soul joined the others in the realm of the dead. But he descended there as Savior, proclaiming the Good News to the spirits imprisoned there.

CCC 633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell” - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God. Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into “Abraham’s bosom”: “It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell.” Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.

CCC 634 “The gospel was preached even to the dead.” The descent into hell brings the Gospel message of salvation to complete fulfilment. This is the last phase of Jesus’ messianic mission, a phase which is condensed in time but vast in its real significance: the spread of Christ’s redemptive work to all men of all times and all places, for all who are saved have been made sharers in the redemption.

CCC 635 Christ went down into the depths of death so that “the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.” Jesus, “the Author of life”, by dying destroyed "him who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and [delivered] all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage."Henceforth the risen Christ holds “the keys of Death and Hades”, so that “at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth.”

Today a great silence reigns on earth, a great silence and a great stillness. A great silence because the King is asleep. The earth trembled and is still because God has fallen asleep in the flesh and he has raised up all who have slept ever since the world began. . . He has gone to search for Adam, our first father, as for a lost sheep. Greatly desiring to visit those who live in darkness and in the shadow of death, he has gone to free from sorrow Adam in his bonds and Eve, captive with him - He who is both their God and the son of Eve. . . “I am your God, who for your sake have become your son. . . I order you, O sleeper, to awake. I did not create you to be a prisoner in hell. Rise from the dead, for I am the life of the dead.”

Hi thistle, and thanks for that. I had read that and that’s why I posed the question in the OP. The question was, when it says “hell” here in the catechism, does it mean he descended to hell hell, you THE hell or does it actually refer to some other hell that isn’t the hell everyone thinks of when they normally use the word, as in “you’re going to hell”.

 

[vicwestlad]

I think he went to Purgatory. Hades was not for the damned but for the people awaiting the resurrection of Christ so that they could come into heaven. There were a lot of dead people hanging around in Hades that weren’t evil, but before Christ there was no resurrection of the dead.

Hi Christine. Thanks for your comment. I have some questions regarding your views here.

1. Do you see purgatory and hades as the same place? If so, can you point to whether this is standard Catholic doctrine or not?
2. Who would be included in these people “hanging around in Hades”? Would it only be truly righteous patriarchs like Noah and Moses? Or would it include all Israelites?
3. If it includes people who “weren’t evil” would this include those who never heard of Jesus, who lived before him like, let’s say, native people from the part of the world we now call America?

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Hi Christine. Thanks for your comment. I have some questions regarding your views here.

1. Do you see purgatory and hades as the same place? If so, can you point to whether this is standard Catholic doctrine or not?
2. Who would be included in these people “hanging around in Hades”? Would it only be truly righteous patriarchs like Noah and Moses? Or would it include all Israelites?
3. If it includes people who “weren’t evil” would this include those who never heard of Jesus, who lived before him like, let’s say, native people from the part of the world we now call America?

The Bible doesn’t spell out these things. You have to infer a bit. At the time Jesus went to Hades there was no resurrection. After he was resurrected, then people who followed his ways and his church had a chance at heavenly life.

1. I see Hades and Purgatory similar, but because of Jesus, Purgatory is now a place to go if you are needing more repentence and atonement for your sins, and one day you will be with God in Heaven. Hades was just a shadowy world, where the dead souls dwelled but had no hope of ever going to heaven.
2. This would be everyone, except the truly damned, and probably Elijah and Enoch who were taken to Heaven.
3. I have no idea.

 

[crazzeto]

I think you should think it strange. These are arguably the most important three days in the history of humanity. Jesus was “dead” for three days and was “in the heart of the earth” for three days, yet no one knows what he was doing or what state he was in. When he rose from the dead, don’t you think the disciples would have asked him what it was like when he was dead? Don’t you think they’d be fascinated to know what he did? I certainly would be. It’s hard to imagine that this was never talked about and if it was talked about then it would have been known, repeated, transmitted through oral tradition and then recorded in the gospels.

I disagree, the single most important day in human history is a day on which we know exactly what happened to Jesus. The day he was crusified, on this day God’s grace was poured out over all of humanity, including humanity in “hades” or, “the underworld”. This is the day on which all of us could finally be reconnected with God. Where, exactly Jesus was doing on this day… What, exactly Jesus was doing on this day, is not in so far as anyone knows as important as this. Not to minimize anything Jesus did or said, but still durring this period of time God’s Grace was already poured out on earth. Souls were already starting to go to heaven, or well. Starting to face their judgments anyway. What we know is he want to “the place of the dead” or “underworld” and did something. Presumably he brought the souls there to ever lasting salvation. This is a great and wonderous thing, but it’s not as great and wonderous as humanity finally being reconnected to God in a new and most intimate way.

Everyone else? So Adam and Eve, Noah, Moses, Daniel, etc. Makes me wonder what conversations they had. That would be fascinating. I mean, Adam and Eve would have been roaming around for thousands of years waiting for Jesus. I can only imagine they would have been very bored. They weren’t suffering and it wasn’t really blissful and they really had nothing to do. It’s very interesting to think about.

Again, you’re making a lot of broad assumptions here. We don’t know exactly what the conditions were like for souls which could not make it to heaven. All we do know for sure is what came from some parables which Jesus told us. Some were comforted, some were not. Your position in the underworld seemed to be linked to how well you kept the commandments, and the laws of the covenant. That’s as much as we know. And now we know souls can go to heaven, because of the crucifixion. Praise God!

Yes but based on Lazarus and the rich man, the other area was one of torment. How could supposedly “wicked” people be in torment day and night for thousands of years when we haven’t yet had the final judgment? Are they going to be judged a second time?

Jesus said there would be a final Judgement, and the suggestion is that the final judgement will come at the end of time. We also know, or certainly generally believe there are more immediate judgements. Where do you get this idea that since it isn’t the end of time, and the final judgement hasn’t come yet, indeed Christ hasn’t come yet so no one gets to heaven that some souls don’t suffer more than others in the “under world” or “place of the dead”?

That wasn’t the question though. The question was where did they go before Christ died. Obviously people who never heard of him didn’t die and go to heaven, so where did they go?

They went to the place of the dead, the Jews beleived this was seperated into 3 seperate “places of the dead” which a soul would go to based upon how their life was lived. No one got to go to paradice, or heaven. This was (is) and impossiblity for Jewish theology (at least as far as I know, I’m not sure if this interpetation has changed with in Judaism it’s self). What we know is Christ opened the gates of heaven for us. We also know there will be a final judgement when he comes again in glory.

 

[Evan]

Vicwestlad, I don’t believe the holy people of the old testament were waiting in the fires of hell for the Messiah, I know the catechism uses the term hell,however, I still feel the actual place our Lord descended to should be referred to as the ‘Bosom of Abraham.’
I suppose there are some mysteries we will never have the true answer to until we are safely home with God.Carlan

The Church refers to the place as ‘the Limbo of the Fathers’

 

[vicwestlad]

CHRISTINE77:

1. I see Hades and Purgatory similar, but because of Jesus, Purgatory is now a place to go if you are needing more repentence and atonement for your sins, and one day you will be with God in Heaven. Hades was just a shadowy world, where the dead souls dwelled but had no hope of ever going to heaven

I’m a little confused by your ideas here. Are you saying they are the same place of similar but different places? Did both exist as separate places before Jesus died?

CHRISTINE77:

1. This would be everyone, except the truly damned, and probably Elijah and Enoch who were taken to Heaven.

Well there’s a lot of dispute as to whether Elijah and Enoch were taken to heaven. Many Christian teachers argue that they can’t have been because Jesus said no one has ascended to heaven except he who has come down from heaven, the son of man.

Now if you say, everyone except the “truly damned” then I have a couple of questions:

1. I’d like you to give an example of who you mean who is truly damned. By what kind of measure would someone be called truly damned, who is doing the judging, and where did they go when they died if not hades? I’m not sure if this “truly damned” idea is scriptural. I’m not even sure if it makes sense but I’ll be interested in hearing your thoughts.
2. Since you say everyone but the truly damned were hanging around in hades, this would include Adam, Eve, Noah, Moses and other Israelites. Would it include, let’s say, Egyptians who didn’t participate in the bad treatment of the Israelites?

CHRISTINE77:

1. I have no idea

What? You have no idea what happened to all those millions of people who lived before Christ who never heard of the Hebrew god or Jesus? The Israelites were a relatively small group of people on the face of the earth for thousands of years, so you have no idea what happened to the vast majority of humanity for the first 6 thousand years? That doesn’t make sense. Are you sure scripture is silent on something so important?

 

[vicwestlad]

crazzeto:

I disagree, the single most important day in human history is a day on which we know exactly what happened to Jesus.

You didn’t address the point I made about the apostles being interested in knowing what Jesus was doing for three days and three nights. Don’t you think they would have been curious about such a thing? I don’t see why this wouldn’t have been passed on through oral tradition. Yet, apparently all we have is speculation.

crazzeto:

Again, you’re making a lot of broad assumptions here. We don’t know exactly what the conditions were like for souls which could not make it to heaven. All we do know for sure is what came from some parables which Jesus told us. Some were comforted, some were not. Your position in the underworld seemed to be linked to how well you kept the commandments, and the laws of the covenant. That’s as much as we know. And now we know souls can go to heaven, because of the crucifixion. Praise God!

I’m just making the point, though, that it seems very weird that Adam, Moses, Noah, Eve, etc. would all be hanging around in some underworld place for thousands of years. Doesn’t that strike you as an odd image when you think about it?

crazzeto:

Jesus said there would be a final Judgement, and the suggestion is that the final judgement will come at the end of time. We also know, or certainly generally believe there are more immediate judgements.

You’re going to have to explain this one a bit more. I don’t see how this makes sense at all. What do you mean by “immediate Judgements”? Who’s doing the judging? If it’s god then god can’t do half measures and it wouldn’t be fair to send someone to be in torment day and night in the bad part of hades when he or she hasn’t been fully judged. And if they’ve been fully judged, then the don’t need to be judged again at the end of time. Can you try to make sense out of this, ‘cause it doesn’t seem to make any.

crazzeto:

They went to the place of the dead, the Jews beleived this was seperated into 3 seperate “places of the dead” which a soul would go to based upon how their life was lived.

Em, I haven’t heard this Jewish belief in three separate places of the dead where people would go based on how their life was lived. Do you have any sources for this?

crazzeto:

No one got to go to paradice, or heaven. This was (is) and impossiblity for Jewish theology (at least as far as I know, I’m not sure if this interpetation has changed with in Judaism it’s self)…

Well Christine, above, just argued that Enoch and Elijah went to heaven, which is what the bible says. I know people argue otherwise but it’s amazing to me just how much confusion there is about these issues among Christians.

 

[vicwestlad]

The Church refers to the place as ‘the Limbo of the Fathers’

So why do they say “hell” in the catechism? My question was is this the hell that most people mean when they use the term, or is this a differnent “hell” that isn’t the hell of fire and suffering? Are there two hells? What does hell mean exactly? Does anyone know?

 

[crazzeto]

You didn’t address the point I made about the apostles being interested in knowing what Jesus was doing for three days and three nights. Don’t you think they would have been curious about such a thing? I don’t see why this wouldn’t have been passed on through oral tradition. Yet, apparently all we have is speculation.

They spent 3 days on the run, split up, defeated, scared. I honestly don’t think they care if he was in cancoon laying on the beach. He was dead, just as he promised he was raised on the third day victoriously! They were in the prence of God, to know that it was true was enough for them. It most certainly is enough for me. I’m not sure why you’re hung up on it, maybe in your mind your building those 3 days up to be bigger and more important that they are. You seem to suggest they’re more important than the crusifixsion, they aren’t.

I’m just making the point, though, that it seems very weird that Adam, Moses, Noah, Eve, etc. would all be hanging around in some underworld place for thousands of years. Doesn’t that strike you as an odd image when you think about it?

No, not especially. I just have to ask now. Do you have faith? Please don’t take this as an insult or rebuttle, but your mode of questioning really makes me think I’m talking to someone who lacks faith, or at least has faith issues. This information would be helpful for the discussion. Thanks.

You’re going to have to explain this one a bit more. I don’t see how this makes sense at all. What do you mean by “immediate Judgements”? Who’s doing the judging? If it’s god then god can’t do half measures and it wouldn’t be fair to send someone to be in torment day and night in the bad part of hades when he or she hasn’t been fully judged. And if they’ve been fully judged, then the don’t need to be judged again at the end of time. Can you try to make sense out of this, ‘cause it doesn’t seem to make any.

There is one judge, Jesus Christ. When you die, you go to Heaven, or Purgatory, or neither of those two pleaces (H-E-DOUBLE HOCKEY STICKS). When Christ comes again in Glory, he will have a final Judgement at the resurection of the body. After this, you spend eternity body and soul in your final destination.

Em, I haven’t heard this Jewish belief in three separate places of the dead where people would go based on how their life was lived. Do you have any sources for this?

I’m a Catholic, my faith is built on Jeudism. Thus some knowlege of Jeudism helps one understand their own Christian faith. I got this on google

religionfacts.com/judaism/beliefs/afterlife.htm
jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/afterlife.html

It would seem there’s still a lot of grey area in Jeudism regarding the after life, probably because the OT (Torah) isn’t very specific about the after life.

Well Christine, above, just argued that Enoch and Elijah went to heaven, which is what the bible says. I know people argue otherwise but it’s amazing to me just how much confusion there is about these issues among Christians.

Enoch and Elijah were with out sin (completely the bible suggests), the wage of sin is death. If Enoch and Elijah did not have sin (it would seem including original sin?), then one could go to heaven.

 

[Verbum]

Hi Vic,

“Descended into Hell” is the Hebrew way of saying “He died”. Souls are spirits; they occupy no space, so they cannot be in a particular place. Spirits are present where they exercise their action. It says, in the Bible that he preached to the departed. He was therefore in contact with them spiritually.

People used to talk of “limbo”. On the other hand, in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, the just are said to be in the “bosom of Abraham” a state of bliss. It seems that some Fathers thought that this was bliss without the beatific vision, which would have come after their redemption by Christ. But we should remember that outside this life, there is no time, no “before” and “after”. When we think of Mary who was granted sanctifying grace before the arrival of her son, but in view of his merits, there is no reason why people who died before Christ could not have been saved in view of his merits. All this to say that, during those three days, Jesus was “in” heaven.

What do you think?

Verbum