Where did the Christian meaning of Satan originate?

[meltzerboy]

I understand, but in Hebrew the word Satan means “adversary” so its not exactly inaccurate. I also just want to state that the Christian view of Satan is not that He rivals God in power, though he opposes Him (thus adversary). There are a number of Christians (usually of the liberal sort, but not always) do not actually believe in literal demons or demons as actual beings. I agree though, orthodox Christians “should” have a literal understanding of demons.

Satan is the accuser, who accuses us of not fulfilling the Word of G-d. This is one of his other roles, besides being the tempter of our free will. It is thought that in the heavenly court, Satan accuses us so that we may defend ourselves by reviewing our own lives and passing judgment on ourselves in the presence of G-d. If we fail in this respect, G-d renders final judgment that we must atone in purgatory, but it is Satan who executes G-d’s judgment as the angel of death. Once again, Satan ultimately carries out G-d’s will according to Jewish belief.

 

[ApologiaSophia]

Satan is the accuser, who accuses us of not fulfilling the Word of G-d. This is one of his other roles, besides being the tempter of our free will. It is thought that in the heavenly court, Satan accuses us so that we may defend ourselves by reviewing our own lives and passing judgment on ourselves in the presence of G-d. If we fail in this respect, G-d renders final judgment that we must atone in purgatory, but it is Satan who executes G-d’s judgment as the angel of death. Once again, Satan ultimately carries out G-d’s will according to Jewish belief.

No, i get that, i was just correcting the notion that Satan “rivals” God in Christian theology in power or authority.

 

[Wandile]

Ive never heard of Sadducees referred to as Temple Jews before. Second Temple Judaism refers to the period, not a sect. Also, i learned that some Orthodox Jews do have some kind of belief in demons. There are references to demons in the Talmud and apparently there’s is a elaborate demonology in Kabbalah.

Yes Second Temple Judaism refers to a period, a period that was dominated by two main sects (among many) who were the Sadducees and the Pharisees. The Sadducees dominated the temple clergy and the Pharisees dominated the theological belief of the majority of Jews despite their minority in clergy. The Pharisees had huge support and thus huge influence.

 

[pig]

Satan is the accuser, who accuses us of not fulfilling the Word of G-d. This is one of his other roles, besides being the tempter of our free will. It is thought that in the heavenly court, Satan accuses us so that we may defend ourselves by reviewing our own lives and passing judgment on ourselves in the presence of G-d. If we fail in this respect, G-d renders final judgment that we must atone in purgatory, but it is Satan who executes G-d’s judgment as the angel of death. Once again, Satan ultimately carries out G-d’s will according to Jewish belief.

Thats interesting. In Pope Leo XIII’s vision, on Oct. 13 1884 after Mass, he heard satan and christ speak, the former demanding the latter allowing.
In christianity this satan at some point in the future becomes a man, as christ God became man. And as many jews followed christ when he came, but not many of their religious leaders, christ said; I am come in the name of my Father, and you receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him you will receive.
This I think might be the source of the belief that satan will, when he comes in his turn as a man, be accepted by the jewish people. This seems to be complicated by your belief that satan is actually Gods agent.

 

[Wandile]

Thats interesting. In Pope Leo XIII’s vision, on Oct. 13 1884 after Mass, he heard satan and christ speak, the former demanding the latter allowing.
In christianity this satan at some point in the future becomes a man, as christ God became man. And as many jews followed christ when he came, but not many of their religious leaders, christ said; I am come in the name of my Father, and you receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him you will receive.
This I think might be the source of the belief that satan will, when he comes in his turn as a man, be accepted by the jewish people. This seems to be complicated by your belief that satan is actually Gods agent.

That is actually incorrect. Satan won’t become a man. He will possess a man who willingly allows this to happen. Antichrist will be a man possessed by Satan as opposed to Satan incarnate.

I suggest you read the early church fathers on this as well as Catholic prophecies concerning Antichrist.

 

[pig]

That is actually incorrect. Satan won’t become a man. He will possess a man who willingly allows this to happen. Antichrist will be a man possessed by Satan as opposed to Satan incarnate.

I suggest you read the early church fathers on this as well as Catholic prophecies concerning Antichrist.

Wandile - thats what I meant, become a man, possess a man - mere technicalities…

 

[Wandile]

Wandile - thats what I meant, become a man, possess a man - mere technicalities…

Just making sure

 

[pig]

Just making sure

Nothing wrong with being sure.:aok:

 

[TimeEntrance]

Today’s Jewish rabbis are the successors so to speak of the Pharisees of Jesus time, who were already called rabbis even back then. Jesus seems to confirm that the Pharisees had real authority at that time when he speaks of them having taken their place on the seat of Moses and tells people to observe their teachings. Perhaps they might best be considered the first century AD equivalent of the judges Moses set up, as opposed to Aaron and his sons who were the priests. After the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem the kohenim (priests) of Judaism have had very little to do (and nothing outside of Orthodox Judaism I think) but they still exist, a hereditary status entirely separate from the rabbis.

Thanks for the info, Aelred, I did not know all that.

 

[TimeEntrance]

Satan is the accuser, who accuses us of not fulfilling the Word of G-d. This is one of his other roles, besides being the tempter of our free will. It is thought that in the heavenly court, Satan accuses us so that we may defend ourselves by reviewing our own lives and passing judgment on ourselves in the presence of G-d. If we fail in this respect, G-d renders final judgment that we must atone in purgatory, but it is Satan who executes G-d’s judgment as the angel of death. Once again, Satan ultimately carries out G-d’s will according to Jewish belief.

Meltz, you seem like a cool enough dude, but do you know how scary that sounds to someone reared Christian?

We try not to get down too cool with Diablo. Not unless you’re in the Mexican cartels praying to one of those skull figures of death.

In Catholicism it’s more the Queen of Heaven - except not being an accuser but advocate for us - that does the ultimate carrying out of God’s will.

 

[meltzerboy]

Meltz, you seem like a cool enough dude, but do you know how scary that sounds to someone reared Christian?

We try not to get down too cool with Diablo. Not unless you’re in the Mexican cartels praying to one of those skull figures of death.

In Catholicism it’s more the Queen of Heaven - except not being an accuser but advocate for us - that does the ultimate carrying out of God’s will.

I imagine it would sound scary to Christians. That is one of the reasons I posted the thread: not to scare anyone, but to find out where the Christian idea of Satan came from. Some posters have pointed to biblical passages in the Hebrew Bible, but Jews have other interpretations of many of these passages. It is, as I’ve stated, equally scary for Jews to believe that Satan is any kind of a potential adversary to G-d even if only in his own mind.

I wonder whether the origin of Satan is more rooted in Christian theology for other reasons besides traces of his power found in the OT? Does his existence relate to the role of Jesus, to the Christian notions of sin and salvation, and so on? IOW, why is there this tension and battle on a universal scale between good and evil, the latter personified by Satan?

Thanks to all for their informative comments.

 

[Michael19682]

I wonder whether the origin of Satan is more rooted in Christian theology for other reasons besides traces of his power found in the OT? Does his existence relate to the role of Jesus, to the Christian notions of sin and salvation, and so on? IOW, why is there this tension and battle on a universal scale between good and evil, the latter personified by Satan?

Thanks to all for their informative comments.

see post #8 if you overlooked it.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

I imagine it would sound scary to Christians. That is one of the reasons I posted the thread: not to scare anyone, but to find out where the Christian idea of Satan came from. Some posters have pointed to biblical passages in the Hebrew Bible, but Jews have other interpretations of many of these passages. It is, as I’ve stated, equally scary for Jews to believe that Satan is any kind of a potential adversary to G-d even if only in his own mind.

I wonder whether the origin of Satan is more rooted in Christian theology for other reasons besides traces of his power found in the OT? Does his existence relate to the role of Jesus, to the Christian notions of sin and salvation, and so on? IOW, why is there this tension and battle on a universal scale between good and evil, the latter personified by Satan?

Thanks to all for their informative comments.

For the most part the Christian concepts of sin and of salvation in Christ are all about man himself. Satan and the other demons sometimes play a role in tempting humans to sin, but the sins (if they are sins at all) remain free choices of the human being and it is as these that they are forgiven. Therefore I’m not sure if the kind of theological explanation you are looking for exists, in which Satan himself would be a necessary and integral part of the Christian theology of redemption.

One point I think no one has brought up yet is the identification of the serpent who tempted Adam and Eve as Satan, which is explicitly made in the book of Revelation, besides Christian tradition of course. God’s curse of the serpent in Genesis is interpreted as a Messianic prophesy (if prophesy is the right term for words depicted as coming directly from God), with the victory of Christ being depicted as the ultimate “crushing of the serpent’s head” by the seed of the woman. This does set redemption in the light of “victory over Satan.”

In a more general sense, I think the concept of the struggle of this age being one of the forces of good against the forces of evil is very healthy and realistic. Few philosophies are so cold and horrible as the sort of optimism that sees all things as good. If we are to complete our sojourn through this valley of tears we need heroism and hope, and neither is possible if we insist against all evidence that it is still a paradise.

 

[Kaninchen]

Here is another difference between Judaism and Christianity, which is related to the difference regarding Satan. Judaism does not believe in the rebellion of angels against G-d because it does not believe that angels–including Lucifer, become Satan–have free will. The Jewish teaching is only humans have free will, not the angels nor the beasts, and that the free will granted by G-d to humans places them in a “higher” or, at least, different category compared to the angels, who cannot be tempted by sin.

Interestingly, Sumerian religion (one of the ‘paradigmatic’ religions of the Ancient Middle East) had a group of minor ‘sky gods’ known as the Anunna who fell out with the ‘Sky God’, An, and ended up as assistants to Ereshkigal, Goddess of the Underworld.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

I’ve thought of something else as well, and rather than trying to edit I’ll just make a new post for it.

In Matthew, when Christ is describing how the Church will be founded on Peter, he proclaims that “the gates of Hades will not prevail against it”, “it” being the Church. Now this is often taken in the sense that Satan will never conquer the Church. This is quite true, but it ignores the fact that gates are defensive rather than offensive structures. If Jesus meant Hades will not conquer the Church why not say “the swords (or some other weapon) of Hades will not prevail against it” or “Hades will not prevail against its gates”?

Instead the idea seems to be that the Church will successfully attack Hades itself. Sense is made of this if one considers the entire human race and the entire physical world to be fallen after the failure of Adam and Eve, and therefore in a limited but real sense a part of the Empire of Hell so to speak. Christ, and in Him the Church, break down the gates of the prison and free the captives who are willing to be freed, or conquer the city and take away the spoils.

In this way Satan and the demons in general may be seen as representing (not that they aren’t real people) the status quo of the fallen universe, with all its hopelessness. Christ has victory over them by bringing light into the darkness and hope to the hopeless. The circle is broken in the relentless cycles of history almost despairingly described in the book of Ecclesiastes. There finally is something new under the sun, something that changes everything.

Just some thoughts as they’ve occurred to me.

 

[JerryZ]

Yes, demons do appear in Jewish folklore and the mystical Kabbalah. However, the latter work does not constitute official Jewish doctrine although it is used by some Orthodox Jews to interpret the Torah. Demons are not the same as Satan, and belief in either is not essential to Judaism. The idea that there is a supernatural being who, with respect to power, may rival G-d rather than do His bidding is considered close to idolatry in Judaism.

And yet phylosophically that is a bit of a contradiction. Bear with me.

Adam and Eve where free from sin in the garden
They disobbeyed
Did they do it because an external agent temped them or they chose of their own free will?

The OT says they were tempted

Did the agent of temptation have free will or was it “directed” by G-d?

You can’t have it both ways.

Satan either has free will to do evil or is directed to do it by G-d.
I doubt the second option very much but that’s me.