Where do teens go after they are no longer teens and outgrow Teen Life?

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Lepanto

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Teen Life proponents say that such Masses help to attract teens. Although this has been debated in other threads, my question is: where do teens go after they are no longer teens and outgrow Teen Life?

After years of being subjected to Masses with rock music, “teen-relevant homilies,” and stage spectacle, what proportion of Teen Lifers successfully graduate to “normal” Masses once they get too old for Teen Life?

And what proportion, bored with normal Masses, seek the ever-escalating entertainment spectacle and emotional outpouring found in certain Protestant services?

And what proportion becomes bored and drops out of Church completely?

The success or failure of Teen Life can only be judged by how many teens stay in the Church AFTER they outgrow Teen Life.
 
So what I understand you saying is: teens aren’t growing in faith or knowledge of the Church. They aren’t respecting the Traditions and Liturgy because they’re expecting to be entertained. Teen Life Masses are “dumbed-down” and pandering to our youth, and our youth don’t have a “real” spiritual life, or a strong foundation as Catholics.

See, that’s what irritates me about Confirmation: youth are supposed to be ready for the personal responsibility of living the integrity of a faith-filled life. (1 Cor 13:11: When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child. But, when I became a man, I put away the things of a child.) But in our American culture, it’s not always so. We need our culture to match up to the expectations of our Faith. That foundation isn’t found in Teen Life, or at school. That foundation is found at home.

I see people pinging Teen Life Ministry over this. But how much responsibility is taken in the home (no, homeschooling parent, please sit down 😉 ). We need to have more home-oriented expectations of behavior, manners, faith that directs behavior within and outside of the home. And the only way to make that bridge is by proper formation in the home.
lepanto said:
The success or failure of Teen Life can only be judged by how many teens stay in the Church AFTER they outgrow Teen Life.
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It’s like saying that the success of a school is based on how many students go on to college.

And it will never happen unless/until we get the parents in line with the Church.

It reminds me of listening to teachers talk: they’re underpaid, expected to be babysitters for 9 hours a day, take home work, deal with children who are undisciplined at home.

And then the parents complain, too: teacher picks on my child, low test scores, teachers get three months off, can’t meet my schedule, little Johnny isn’t learning…

As soon as you can get the parents and teachers working together, understanding and agreeing on the curriculum and putting school work before play, watch the child grow!

The same is true for youth ministry: if the parent goes to Mass but once a week and never says grace at home, what is the youth supposed to feel but that going to Mass is a distraction from something else, if God has no place in their lives on any oother day?
 
lepanto said:
Teen Life proponents say that such Masses help to attract teens. Although this has been debated in other threads, my question is: where do teens go after they are no longer teens and outgrow Teen Life?

After years of being subjected to Masses with rock music, “teen-relevant homilies,” and stage spectacle, what proportion of Teen Lifers successfully graduate to “normal” Masses once they get too old for Teen Life?

And what proportion, bored with normal Masses, seek the ever-escalating entertainment spectacle and emotional outpouring found in certain Protestant services?

And what proportion becomes bored and drops out of Church completely?

The success or failure of Teen Life can only be judged by how many teens stay in the Church AFTER they outgrow Teen Life.
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For continued entertainment they go to the local Fundamentalist church next door!
 
or they go to Franciscan University of Steubenville, well ok, only a few do that, but I am pretty sure most of the students here are from lifeteen parishes. (I am one of the few who aren’t)
 
Someone can continue attending Life Teen Masses for the rest of their lives if they want. It’s not like there’s someone at the door checking IDs to make sure they’re not too old.

Some (Most?) will go on to college where they may get involved in campus ministry. If it’s done well, the campus ministry may prepare them to take their places in the parishes they’ll move onto after college.

I’m sure some teens will drop out of the church. This may not be so much because of Life Teen as because they’ve been confirmed and all too often that’s the time you “graduate” from the church. Or maybe mom and dad don’t push so much after confirmation.

I think the people are right who said it’s up to the family and how they’ve raised the child. If Mom and Dad go to Mass regularly the kid is more likely to continue too.
 
hopefully the parish has some plan to draw youth into parish life, ministries and apostolates, or if they go to school they get involved in campus ministry (with more “relevant” liturgies in some places) and eventually their tastes change, they long for more reverent worship, or by God’s good grace stumble upon a beautiful, reverent “regular” Mass, or whoa, a Latin Mass, and they will be hooked by the experience. Hopefully also as they mature spiritually and every other way the grow out of seeking emotional highs and experiences and judging the quality of their worship and their spiritual condition by such superficial standards.

It is a part of lifeteen, and many other programs for youth, to establish small groups for prayer, bible reading etc., and like most other small-group based programs, the key to maturing and continuing spiritual growth is continued participation in the small groups, even when the move out of the lifeteen or other program with their age group.
 
Miserissima said:
So what I understand you saying is: teens aren’t growing in faith or knowledge of the Church. They aren’t respecting the Traditions and Liturgy because they’re expecting to be entertained. Teen Life Masses are “dumbed-down” and pandering to our youth, and our youth don’t have a “real” spiritual life, or a strong foundation as Catholics.
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Actually, I made no claims at all. I am merely asking. Please re-read my opening post.
 
lepanto said:
Actually, I made no claims at all. I am merely asking. Please re-read my opening post.
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I intentionally tried to reiterate what I understood you to have said. That’s the first whole paragraph was phrased as a question. I wasn’t making a joke or being sarcastic, so I didn’t use a smiley emoticon. An I wasn’t confused so I didn’t use the “confused” emoticon. It was a sincere question where Iwas trying to relate back to you what I understood you to have said.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you when you invite me to re-read yout opening post. I did, and that’s what I got from it.
I am going to match up my comments with what you wrote. I am sorry they are not in order, but I was trying to tie it all together in my initial response.

You: "After years of being subjected to Masses with rock music, “teen-relevant homilies,” and stage spectacle…entertainment spectacle and emotional outpouring"

Me: “They aren’t respecting the Traditions and Liturgy because they’re expecting to be entertained.”

You: "where do teens go after they are no longer teens and outgrow Teen Life?"

Me: “Teen Life Masses are “dumbed-down” and pandering to our youth, and our youth don’t have a “real” spiritual life, or a strong foundation as Catholics.”

You: "And what proportion becomes bored and drops out of Church completely?"

To answer your question more directly, those who don’t grow in spiritual maturity. Those who lack proper catechesis and don’t comprehend the awesome mystery of the Eucharist. That’s why I said, “teens aren’t growing in faith or knowledge of the Church.”

The basics of your question was: "The success or failure of Teen Life can only be judged by how many teens stay in the Church AFTER they outgrow Teen Life."

My answer was: “We need to have more home-oriented expectations of behavior, manners, faith that directs behavior within and outside of the home. And the only way to make that bridge is by proper formation in the home.”

I was trying to make my post reflect that Teen Masses aren’t the crux of the issue regarding youth who stay in the Church. Teen Life can really augment a youth’s faith. However, TL isn’t very effective as far growth in the realm of spiritual maturity (Cor 13:11) without consistent reinforcement from the home.
 
My hope is that the Life Teen Masses, and general Life Teen ministry is helping these teens get closer to our Lord. This of course would generally be helped by the involvement and example of their parents.

I know a lot of people knock the Life Teen Masses and suggest that the kids are going to Mass to be entertained. And the people who heard the discourse on the Bread of Life were only there because they had “eaten [their] fill.” But they were fed with the words of life while they were there. Hopefully, the priests who are celebrating these Masses will give the kids homilies that are grounded in the truth and relavent to the lives of these kids. Making something pertinent to a specific audience is not automatically “dumbing down.”

Can the eye say to the foot, I don’t need you? The Catholic Church is catholic. We are made up of people with many charisms and ways of drawing closer to God. For some it is a Life Teen Mass, for others it might be a Charismatic Mass, or a Folk Mass, or a solemn Novus Ordo Mass, or a Tridentine Mass. They are all the Mass. They all involve and focus on the re-presentation of our Lord’s Sacrafice. We should be grateful that these teens actually want to go to Mass and praise God through joyous music. I can think of a lot of worse things for teens to do on a Sunday evening.

Pax et Bonem.
 
brockmac said:
We are made up of people with many charisms and ways of drawing closer to God. For some it is a Life Teen Mass, for others it might be a Charismatic Mass, or a Folk Mass, or a solemn Novus Ordo Mass, or a Tridentine Mass. They are all the Mass.
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The idea of designer Masses is very problematic. If my “charism” is heavy metal, does that mean that I am entitled to a Mosh Pit Mass?

Fortunately, the Vatican is clear on this:
"A) General norms
    1. Regulation of the sacred liturgy depends solely on the authority of the Church, that is, on the Apostolic See and, as laws may determine, on the bishop.
  2. In virtue of power conceded by the law, the regulation of the liturgy within certain defined limits belongs also to various kinds of competent territorial bodies of bishops legitimately established.
  3. Therefore no other person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on his own authority.
  4. That sound tradition may be retained, and yet the way remain open to legitimate progress Careful investigation is always to be made into each part of the liturgy which is to be revised. This investigation should be theological, historical, and pastoral. Also the general laws governing the structure and meaning of the liturgy must be studied in conjunction with the experience derived from recent liturgical reforms and from the indults conceded to various places. Finally, there must be no innovations unless the good of the Church genuinely and certainly requires them; and care must be taken that any new forms adopted should in some way grow organically from forms already existing."
Source:

CONSTITUTION
ON THE SACRED LITURGY
SACROSANCTUM CONCILIUM
SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY
HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON DECEMBER 4, 1963

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19631204_sacrosanctum-concilium_en.html
 
I am not suggesting that rampant violations of the rubrics be condoned or tolerated. I am simply suggesting that if a parish, with the consent of the local bishop, wishes to offer a mass with music that is appealing to teens and a homily that is directed at issues that they face in their lives, I don’t see the harm. They are still participating in the re-presentation of our Lord’s Sacrifice.

His Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI himself, said of the Novus Ordo and the Tridentine Mass that they are two forms of one rite. If this can be said of the two different missals, than it seems to follow that if the Novus Ordo Missal is followed, the choice of music has little bearing on what takes place on the alter.

And as far as “designer masses” are concerned, in this Arch-diocese alone, we have Novus Ordo Masses of varying degrees of solemnity and traditionalism and in at least 4 different languages, one parish that offers an Anglican Use Latin Rite Mass, several Eastern Rite Catholic Liturgies, and of course one parish (so far) that offers the Tridentine Mass. We are all united through the Eucharist, and under our Arch-Bishop.

I myself, prefer a traditional and solemn Novus Ordo Mass with a fair amount of Latin and organ music. I am also a cathecist who has been teaching 9th graders as they prepare for Confirmation for six years and counting. I tell them over and over, that it is important that they learn and understand the doctrine that I am teaching them (or else I wouldn’t bother teaching it) but it is even more important that they have an interior conversion and relationship with our Lord. So I encourage them to attend mass regularly and pray daily.

I am also a father of 5 who just changed parishes because the parish I was in did not offer a viable youth program, in spite of the best efforts of the DRE, the pastor, and the youth minister who resigned in frustration. Our youth are not just the future of the Church, they are a part of the Church today, and the Church needs to invite them and welcome them and draw them in.

Pax et Bonem.
 
Lepanto,

I don’t know how familiar you are with Lifeteen since you have the name wrong. It makes me question the rest of your initial post which appears to have come from a negative point of view full of assumptions.

Our teens attend LT mass and/or all other masses including daily mass. It is not required that they attend the LT mass in order to participate in the Life Nights or any other activities such as the retreats. LT is a ministry that is more than just attending a certain mass. However, I have heard more traditional Latin music used at our LT mass than at other masses because the point is not just to “entertain” teens but to draw them closer to Christ, especially in the Eucharist. Assuming that all teens like all contemporary music all of the time is a mistake just like assuming that all contemporary music at mass is bad is a mistake.

A number of our teens go to a Cistercian abbey in self-organized groups for 1st Friday mass with traditional Latin music BTW, so I don’t think they are going to have some kind of culture shock. Another large group goes to daily mass before HS on their own initiative with no music. They pick each other up and then go to mass and breakfast before school. No parents. Just their own ideas since they have grown spiritually during LT.

A good LT program is not all about contemporary music and dumbed down homilies. In fact, I’ve never heard a dumbed down homily at our LT mass. Our LT masses have gotten homilies that are a lot more hard-hitting and to the point on difficult subjects than I’ve heard at the morning masses. It is one reason that a lot of adults like that particular mass also. The teens also have time to discuss the subjects in far more depth at Life Nights than any adults in the parish who just show up for 90 minutes of mass only. I’ve heard deeper, more probing questions about the faith from our teens than I’ve ever heard from adults.

When they feel that they are in a safe environment with people whom they can trust to be honest you might be surprised at what teens will ask. This is one reason that adult volunteers must be carefully screened and they cannot have HS aged children at the time that they volunteer. Most teens are not going to ask counsel on a sensitive subject like peers pressuring them about sex etc while their Mom hovers nearby.

Our teens are taught discipline and reverence. The first time I saw a chapel full of teens (no parents) for a holy hour so full of reverence, I cried. I was amazed on their retreats when there would be more than 100 on their knees for an hour or more of adoration after a long mass (on a Friday or Saturday night). This was their choice while games, food and other “entertainment” was also provided in another area.

I don’t know what kind of LT program you have seen or possibly just heard about, but you apparently have not seen it done properly. The whole point is to draw teens closer to Christ and to build a strong foundation for them to carry through the rest of their life even when a good parish support may not be in place.

We just celebrated our 10th anniversary of LT in our parish. My parish now has more than 10 young men in various stages of seminary and pre-seminary studies to become priests. We have one young man in Italy at a monastery to become a brother and one young lady who has taken 1st vows with a contemplative order. All of them are LT alums and all are very faithful to the orthodox teachings of the church. We have lots more who are doing mission and evangelization work after HS even to the point of delaying college for a year to travel with NET and other ministries such as walking across the US to end abortion.
 
lepanto said:
…where do teens go after they are no longer teens and outgrow Teen Life?

…what proportion of Teen Lifers successfully graduate to “normal” Masses once they get too old for Teen Life?

And what proportion, bored with normal Masses, seek the ever-escalating entertainment spectacle and emotional outpouring found in certain Protestant services?

And what proportion becomes bored and drops out of Church completely?..
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I am not aware of any statistical analysis that has been done in this matter, so the percentages for each of these conditions may be anywhere from 0% to 100%.

Such an answer would not be meaningful, however unless we were to compare it to a control group. That is, what proportion of teens who have never attended a Teen Life Mass continues to attend “normal” Masses as a post-teen? What proportion of those who have never attended a Teen Life Mass, bored with normal Masses, seek the ever-escalating entertainment spectacle and emotional outpouring found in certain Protestant services? And what proportion of those who have never attended a Teen Life Mass becomes bored and drops out of Church completely?
 
Well, if they go off to college they either have Campus Ministries on a college campus, or Newman Centers at public universities.

Post-college then look for Young Adult groups for 20’s and 30’s. It is a mix of spiritually and just having fun (e.g. game night, bowling, etc…).
 
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