E
ericc
Guest
I did not question whether what you said is credible or not. Neither did I say you said nothing. In fact I said “you wrote a lot” but it didn’t address the questions I asked. Namely, to provide evidence because you claimed 3 basic things:
a) Gnostic Christianity came from Paul
b) Paul was not a late comer
c) Falsified history
You suggest that I read Elaine Pagels’ “The Gnostic Paul” and that I read Stephan Huller’s “The Real Messiah”
At the moment I don’t have access to these books. But wouldn’t YOUR bible has the relevant information to allow the comparison to be made between our Catholic Bible vs yours on Acts of the Apostles? I wouldn’t defend my faith by asking folks to read books by so-and-so. If your bible goes back 2000 yrs, then let us open them up and compare them side by side and see where the differences are. Perhaps you could provide the link to your Acts of the Apostles?
Your post states that the Catholic Acts is false. I asked you to provide evidence of your claim. The post is not about me claiming the Catholic Acts of Apostles is true. That is a different topic altogether and I won’t be diverted.
Probably? Think? Likely? Him or someone else? You are guessing at the answer.
Since you have provided the Panarion source, I googled and read Frank William’s translation of the Panarion Book 1(not Book 2 which you indicated). I hate to ask this, but did you read the full Part 30 on Epiphanius Against the Ebionites from which you quoted your source? From 14:6 onwards to 17:8 (including 16.6-9 which you have quoted )Epiphanus really trashed Ebion for corrupting various books and people. The Panarion source you quoted does not help you at all. In fact, it cast doubt on your source and credibility of evidence. (Unless you accept that the Ebionites version is true?
) Epiphanius said this about Ebion:14:6 And so Ebion, as I said, who is crammed with all sorts of trickery, shows himself in many forms—making him a monstrosity, as I indicated above.
15:1 But they use certain other books as well—supposedly the so-called Travels of Peter written by Clement, though they corrupt their contents while leaving a few genuine passages.
15:3 In the Travels they have changed everything to suit themselves and slandered Peter in many ways, saying that he was baptized daily for purification as they are. And they say he abstained from flesh and dressed meat as they do, and any other dish made from meat—since both Ebion himself, and Ebionites, entirely abstain from these.
16:3 And they say that this is why Jesus was begotten of the seed of a man and chosen, and thus has been named Son of God by election, after the Christ who came to him from on high in the form of a dove.
16:4 But they say that he is not begotten of God the Father but created as one of the archangels, and that he is ruler both of angels and of all creatures of the Almighty; and that he came and instructed us to abolish the sacrifices.
16:6 They speak of other Acts of Apostles in which there is much thoroughly impious material, and from them arm themselves against the truth in deadly earnest.
16:8 Nor are they ashamed to accuse Paul here with certain fabrications of their false apostles’ villainy and imposture. They say that he was Tarsean—which he admits himself and does not deny. And they suppose that he was of Greek parentage, taking the
occasion for this from the (same) passage because of his frank statement, ‘I am a man of Tarsus, a citizen of no mean city.’
16:9 They then claim that he was Greek and the son of a Greek mother and Greek father, but that he had gone up to Jerusalem, stayed there for a while, desired to marry a daughter of the high priest, and had therefore became a proselyte and been
circumcised. But since he still could not marry that sort of girl he became angry and wrote against circumcision, and against the Sabbath and the legislation.
I liked this one!
17:6 Thus they believe that Christ is a manlike figure invisible to human eyes, ninety-six miles—or twenty-four schoena, if you please!—tall; six schoena, or twenty-four miles wide; and some other measurement through. Opposite him the Holy Spirit stands
invisibly as well, in the form of a female, with the same dimensions.
17:7 ‘And how did I find the dimensions?’ he says. ‘I saw from the mountains that the heads were level with them, and from observing the height of the mountain, I learned the dimensions of Christ and the Holy Spirit.’
Catholic Acts says that Saul went to the high priest for letters to the synagogues at Damascus. Perhaps these letters were just letters of introduction/recommendation/assistance. Nothing was said about jurisdiction. Marcionic text “To the Galatians” says that Paul went to Damascus and several verses actually tie in with the Catholic version. So that trip happened.