Where does it indicate

[lordie]

were does it indicate catholic means universal in the bible ?

 

[BartholomewB]

The Greek adjective καθολικός, meaning general or universal, doesn’t occur anywhere in the NT. I’m pretty sure it doesn’t occur in the Greek OT (the Septuagint) either, though that’s harder to check. If @Gorgias sees this, I expect he’ll be able to give you more complete information.

 

[lordie]

thanks @bartholomewB

 

[Gorgias]

καθολικός

You’ll find the word καθόλου, though. Take a look at Acts 4:18 (“they commanded them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus”). The ending (“ικός”) just makes a noun-form out of the word (i.e., it becomes an adjective).

So, the word does appear in the Bible… just as an adverb.

By the way: why does the word need to appear in the Bible? You know how the old argument goes: the word ‘Trinity’ doesn’t appear in the Bible, either, but that doesn’t mean that the Trinity doesn’t exist!

 

[lordie]

true @gorgias , my bro is baptist and he wanted to know I found it under an adjective ,but no were does it indicate about catholics , and as you say trinity is not in the bible neither , neither is the word catholic ,which is strange because ,catholic was the first religion

 

[Gorgias]

true @gorgias , my bro is baptist and he wanted to know I found it under an adjective ,but no were does it indicate about catholics , and as you say trinity is not in the bible neither , neither is the word catholic ,which is strange because ,catholic was the first religion

The first recorded use comes in the second century, from Ignatius of Antioch, in his letter to the Smyrnaeans:

See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.

(Emphasis mine)

Of course, in that original usage, one could make the case that he meant “there is the universal Church.”

So, the Church used various terms to identify itself: ‘universal’ and ‘right-believing’ were two of them. Only later, when the eastern and western branches were feuding, did they use these terms to distinguish themselves from each other. The eastern branch called itself ‘Orthodox’ (or “right-believing”) and the western branch called itself ‘Catholic’ (or “universal”). That’s why your brother isn’t finding the term in the Bible – it didn’t start to come into use in that way for quite a while after the Bible was written.

I mean… the word ‘Protestant’ or ‘Baptist’ isn’t in the Bible either, in the way it began to be used in the 1500s or later, right? But your brother is OK with being called by that name, isn’t he?

So… early on, we called ourselves “Christians”. We still do. But, as we created divisions within the Body of Christ, we needed new words to describe these divisions: Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant, Lutheran, Anglican, Baptist, and on and on…

 

[lordie]

@gorgias ,wow ! thank you , thats indepth , I rather enjoyed the comment

 

[guanophore]

The first recorded use comes in the second century, from Ignatius of Antioch, in his letter to the Smyrnaeans:

This is the first record of the term being used as a formal appellation for the Church founded by Christ, but it originates in the book of Acts 9:31

Acts 9:31 So the church throughout all Judea and Galilee and Samar′ia had peace and was built up; and walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit it was multiplied.

31 [a]Ἡ μὲν οὖν ἐκκλησία καθ’ ὅλης τῆς Ἰουδαίας καὶ Γαλιλαίας καὶ Σαμαρείας εἶχεν εἰρήνην οἰκοδομουμένη, καὶ πορευομένη τῷ φόβῳ τοῦ κυρίου καὶ τῇ παρακλήσει τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος ἐπληθύνετο.

ecclesia kath holos = church catholic, the church throuhgout all

 

[lordie]

@gorgias my brother likes baptist because my grandpa was a baptist minister ,who spoke damnation , and my brothers views are if st.john the baptist is baptist that’s were it started , I don’t argue w him , even tho I know Baptist religion was started by a man in Germany . I did tell my brother that most religion started out as Catholics and branch off from there . Lutheran for example was one that branch off of the catholic church . but he don’t see it that way .

 

[lordie]

thanks @guanophore

 

[Gorgias]

This is the first record of the term being used as a formal appellation for the Church founded by Christ, but it originates in the book of Acts 9:31

Right. But it doesn’t occur there as a single word… right? In the context you mention, it’s two words: “through all”. The first recorded instance – as a single term – is from Ignatius.

 

[guanophore]

Right. But it doesn’t occur there as a single word… right? In the context you mention, it’s two words: “through all”. The first recorded instance – as a single term – is from Ignatius.

Yes, it is used as an adjective in both instances, but in Ignatius, it is used as a proper noun, which is a WHOLE 'nuther level!

I quoted that verse to show that the term is used in scripture to describe the Church founded by Christ. By 107, AD, as you noted, it had become a formal description.

 

[Gorgias]

my brothers views are if st.john the baptist is baptist that’s were it started

Ouch. That’s pretty out there. Was your brother baptized with the baptism of John, or the baptism of Jesus? John didn’t baptize “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”.

But, you probably don’t want to get into an argument with him on that front…

 

[Gorgias]

Yes, it is used as an adjective in both instances

Well, strictly speaking, it’s a prepositional phrase in Acts 9:31 – “throughout all”.

but in Ignatius, it is used as a proper noun

Adjective. That’s why I quoted it.

which is a WHOLE 'nuther level!

Agreed!

I quoted that verse to show that the term is used in scripture to describe the Church founded by Christ.

Hmm… not sure I’d agree with that. We find the same prepositional phrase in Acts 10:37 and Luke 4:14, but we wouldn’t make that claim there, would we?

I think it stretches our credibility a tad if we make our claim based on the phrase καθ’ ὅλης rather than the word καθολικός itself. Pointing to the phrase certainly demonstrates etymology, but not the usage that we want to claim.

 

[lordie]

@gorgias
my brother was baptize as a baptist , in no name of any saints or Jesus . he was rebaptized after he join a charismatic baptist church

 

[Gorgias]

my brother was baptize as a baptist , in no name of any saints or Jesus .

Really? No “I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”? Hmm…

(p.s., the “baptism of John” isn’t a baptism in the name of John. It’s a baptism of the type that John performed – not “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”, but rather, simply a ritual washing (aka ‘baptism’) “for repentance from sin” (Acts 19:4). Mark’s Gospel describes it simply as “a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins”, which John the Baptist himself explains as “I have baptized you with water; he will baptize you with the holy Spirit.” )

 

[lordie]

@gorgias ,thanks ,no he wasn’t baptized in the trinity neither ,my baptist grandpa baptized him , in a verse of the bible and or what ever pop in his head ,he didn’t believe in the trinity or saints. according to my mom who switch from baptist to brethren ,they dunk people in a pool or a tub to baptize them . kinda reminds me of the witch trials pictures were they tied a woman to a plank and dunk her in a creek , , my brother believes he was baptized in the blood of Christ ,as in real blood ,not a metaphor .