Where does it mention Lucifer?

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ak29

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Hi,

I think we all heard the story of Lucifer, He was a fallen angel because he wanted God’s Kingdom etc. I was just wandering where this story can be found? Is it in the Bible?or Is it more of a folk tale? and where? Everytime I search the internet It doesent give any informive hits.

I am only asking because it came up in a discussion with some of my friends, and were now all trying to figure this out, I have been going to this board for a while, just looking, but I decided to make an account and maybe join in the discussion. I am not a satanist or anything dont worry.( It is kinda weird that my first post is about the Devil though 😛 )

Thanks and any information will be appreciated

Sincerely,
Andrew
In nomine Patris et Filii et Spritus Sancti
 
The usual source cited is from Isaiah 14. Though primarily addressing Babylon, the enemy of Israel, it has been interpreted as also applying to Lucifer:
[12] "How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn! [the meaning of “Lucifer”]
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!
[13] You said in your heart,
`I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far north;
[14] I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will make myself like the Most High.’
[15] But you are brought down to Sheol,
to the depths of the Pit.
 
In support of this verse, Lucifer translates a Hebrew word meaning “light-bearer.”
 
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awalt:
In support of this verse, Lucifer translates a Hebrew word meaning “light-bearer.”
…which is what “Lucifer” means in Latin. I believe it’s another name for the planet Venus, when it rises in the morning sky just before Sunrise.

DaveBj
 
thanks guys for all your help 😛

Great to finally have an answer to that

Andrew,
In Nomine et Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti
 
“Lucifer” is the Latin translation of “Helel” in Isaiah 14.12, and appears in the Authorised Version and the Douai-Reims-Challoner Bibles.

“Helel” is the planet Venus, the morning star:
which was called in Greek Phosphoros;

Venus is the Latin name of the planet;

“Lucifer” is the Latin translation of the word phosphoros - in Greek, as in Hebrew, but not in Latin, the word and the name are the same.
English “Light-bearer” translates phosphoros & lucifer - the planet’s name in English, is taken from the Latin.

Jesus in the Book of Revelation compares himself to the “bright morning star” - which is why modern versions of the Bible are sometimes accused of calling Jesus satan: Helel-Lucifer in Isaiah 14 has been added to Jesus-as-Phosphoros-Lucifer, and the result, has been an equation of Jesus with satan.

In fact, although Helel was the morning star, therefore, was Latinised as “Lucifer”, and was understood pointing to satan by Latin-speaking authors, Helel is not satan at all.

Let’s see the text (in the RSV):
  • Isa 14:1 The LORD will have compassion on Jacob and will again choose Israel, and will set them in their own land, and aliens will join them and will cleave to the house of Jacob.
  • Isa 14:2 And the peoples will take them and bring them to their place, and the house of Israel will possess them in the LORD’s land as male and female slaves; they will take captive those who were their captors, and rule over those who oppressed them.
  • Isa 14:3 When the LORD has given you rest from your pain and turmoil and the hard service with which you were made to serve,
  • Isa 14:4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon: "How the oppressor has ceased, the insolent fury ceased!

Note - what follows is a taunt song against a human being​

  • Isa 14:5 The LORD has broken the staff of the wicked, the scepter of rulers,
  • Isa 14:6 that smote the peoples in wrath with unceasing blows, that ruled the nations in anger with unrelenting persecution.
  • Isa 14:7 The whole earth is at rest and quiet; they break forth into singing.
  • Isa 14:8 The cypresses rejoice at you, the cedars of Lebanon, saying, ‘Since you were laid low, no hewer comes up against us.’

Verse 8 points to a king, since the cedars of lebanon were famous through the Near East, and provided wood for temples: temple-building by kings in Assyria & Babylonia was one activity for which the wood of Lebanon was in demand.​

  • Isa 14:9 Sheol beneath is stirred up to meet you when you come, it rouses the shades to greet you, all who were leaders of the earth; it raises from their thrones all who were kings of the nations.
  • Isa 14:10 All of them will speak and say to you: ‘You too have become as weak as we! You have become like us!’
  • Isa 14:11 Your pomp is brought down to Sheol, the sound of your harps; maggots are the bed beneath you, and worms are your covering.
  • Isa 14:12 "How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!

in Hebrew, Helel ben Shahar;​

Clementine Vulgate: Lucifer, qui mane oriebaris ?
(= “Lucifer, who arose in the morning ?”)

“Shahar” is the name of a Canaanite god - Athtar the Proud is another god, and he does more or less what Helel is said to do here. To be specific, when Baal dies, a replacement for him has to be found, to take over his functions in the universe. Athtar is briefly set upon Baal’s throne, but is too short for it: he is “not up to the job”; so he is deposed.

The text is Isaiah looks like a variant of this. He uses Canaanite myths elsewhere too.

14.12 by itself can look like a reference to satan; in context, the oracle is addressed to a human being, and contains details fully applicable to a man, but not to an angelic being. ##

[continue…]
 
[continue & end]

Isa 14:13 You said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far north;

The Mount of Assembly is (probably) two places at once - this is where things get complicated:​

    1. It is Mount Zaphon (= Mount “North”) in Canaan, the Latin Mons Casius & Greek Kasios (from Hittite “Hazzi”), the place of the assembly of the gods of Canaan;
    1. It is possibly also Mount Zion, the site of Jerusalem: the place chosen by JHWH for His people to assemble. Isaiah’s own call, in chapter 6, uses the idea of the divine assembly.
“Possibly”, because there is some uncertainty as to whom is being addressed. A Babylonian king is wanted. The text appears to describe a king who died without proper burial. In Isaiah’s time, this would fit the warrior-king Sargon II of Assyria (721-705 BC), who was also king of Babylon. Problem: he did not attack Jerusalem.

Another possibility: his son Sennacherib (705-681), also king of Assyria & Babylon, who did attack Jerusalem & Judah; was murdered, but was properly buried.
Assyrians and Babylonians thought the dead had to be buried, to stop them returning as evil and unhappy ghosts. Not to be buried, was a terrible fate. ##

Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High.’
Isa 14:15 But you are brought down to Sheol, to the depths of the Pit.
Isa 14:16 Those who see you will stare at you, and ponder over you: ‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms,
Isa 14:17 who made the world like a desert and overthrew its cities, who did not let his prisoners go home?’

These verses describe both kings well - they were great soldiers, and deported captives to Assyria. The word erets, “earth” can also be rendered “land” (of Israel)​

Isa 14:18 All the kings of the nations lie in glory, each in his own tomb;

Isa 14:19 but you are cast out, away from your sepulchre, like a loathed untimely birth, clothed with the slain, those pierced by the sword, who go down to the stones of the Pit, like a dead body trodden under foot.

Applied to Sargon, this would be exact; applied to Sennacherib, it would be rhetorical exaggeration.​

Isa 14:20 You will not be joined with them in burial, because you have destroyed your land, you have slain your people. "May the descendants of evildoers nevermore be named!

Hope this helps​

 
Hi,

I think we all heard the story of Lucifer, He was a fallen angel because he wanted God’s Kingdom etc. I was just wandering where this story can be found? Is it in the Bible?or Is it more of a folk tale? and where? Everytime I search the internet It doesent give any informive hits.

I am only asking because it came up in a discussion with some of my friends, and were now all trying to figure this out, I have been going to this board for a while, just looking, but I decided to make an account and maybe join in the discussion. I am not a satanist or anything dont worry.( It is kinda weird that my first post is about the Devil though 😛 )

Thanks and any information will be appreciated

Sincerely,
Andrew
In nomine Patris et Filii et Spritus Sancti

BTW - Athtar (or Attar) is the masculine form of the name Atirat: who is the goddess (and wife of the god El, ruler of the Canaanite pantheon) better known as Astarte; who in turn is (in part) the Canaanite equivalent of the Mesopotamian goddess Ishtar (whose name should possibly be read as Eshtar); who was goddess of fertility, sexuality, and war: there is a legend of her descent to the underworld, and her death there. Ishtar was a favourite goddess in both Assyria & Babylonia.​

See earlier my earlier in posts in this thread 🙂 ##

Attar-Atirat together stand for the two appearings of Venus: in the evening, and in the morning.

So there *may *also be a veiled reference to Ishtar. ##
 
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ak29:
Hi,

I think we all heard the story of Lucifer, He was a fallen angel because he wanted God’s Kingdom etc. I was just wandering where this story can be found? Is it in the Bible?or Is it more of a folk tale? and where? Everytime I search the internet It doesent give any informive hits.

I am only asking because it came up in a discussion with some of my friends, and were now all trying to figure this out, I have been going to this board for a while, just looking, but I decided to make an account and maybe join in the discussion. I am not a satanist or anything dont worry.( It is kinda weird that my first post is about the Devil though 😛 )

Thanks and any information will be appreciated

Sincerely,
Andrew
In nomine Patris et Filii et Spritus Sancti

BTW - Athtar (or Ashtar) is the masculine form of the name Atirat: who is the goddess (and wife of the god El, ruler of the Canaanite pantheon) better known as Astarte; who in turn is (in part) the Canaanite equivalent of the Mesopotamian goddess Ishtar (whose name should possibly be read as Eshtar); who was goddess of fertility, sexuality, and war: there is a legend of her descent to the underworld, and her death there. Ishtar was a favourite goddess in both Assyria & Babylonia (see my earlier posts).​

Attar-Atirat together stand for the two appearings of Venus: in the evening, and in the morning.

So there *may *also be a veiled reference to Ishtar. ##
 
40.png
ak29:
Hi,

I think we all heard the story of Lucifer, He was a fallen angel because he wanted God’s Kingdom etc. I was just wandering where this story can be found? Is it in the Bible?or Is it more of a folk tale? and where? Everytime I search the internet It doesent give any informive hits.

I am only asking because it came up in a discussion with some of my friends, and were now all trying to figure this out, I have been going to this board for a while, just looking, but I decided to make an account and maybe join in the discussion. I am not a satanist or anything dont worry.( It is kinda weird that my first post is about the Devil though 😛 )

Thanks and any information will be appreciated

Sincerely,
Andrew
In nomine Patris et Filii et Spritus Sancti

Another reference to Venus/Phosphorus:​

2Pet 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star 5459 arise in your hearts:

not forgetting:

Rev 2:28 And I will give him 846 the morning 4407 star 792.

Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches . I am the root and the offspring of David , [and] the bright and morning 3720 star 792.
 
Gottle of Geer,

thanks mate, very indepth post, interesting read,
great to see so many helping hands when I ask a question.

My thanks,
Andrew.
 
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ak29:
Gottle of Geer,

thanks mate, very indepth post, interesting read,
great to see so many helping hands when I ask a question.

My thanks,
Andrew.
Please read
One more ref. Ezekiel 28:12-16

In Chrsit,
selvaraj
 
Satan is not Lucifer. Lucifer is just a word used to describe Nebuchadnezzar, but I suppose it can be used to describe Satan, after all he was once a perfect angel/Cherubim who revolted. Lucifer means “fallen light”. This was a HUGE misunderstanding. the heading is King Nebuchadnezzar!! Get it right Lucifer is an adjective.
 
As is often the case in Scripture, Scriptural passages can refer to more than one thing. There can be multiple levels of meaning.
 
AK29: If you are adept in Latin simply go to the book and verse mentioned by others in this thread, i.e. Is. 14:12, in the Vulgate. Even if you aren’t adept at Latiin go to the Vulgate. you’ll see the name Lucifer. Lacking that, simply go to the NAB and read the foot-notes for that verse, there you’ll see Lucifer again. I have seen one ancient Greek text where name and title is used, the Accuser. Dan
 
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