Where is "the list" of dogmas we must believe/dogmas that haven't changed?

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Can anyone tell me what is the definitive “list” of dogmas/doctrines we must believe? I assume this is related to the list of dogmas/doctrines that have not changed over time. I’m trying to defend the assertion that the Catholic Church has not changed its positions over time. My friend wants to see this “list” so that he can look up historically whether the Church has changed its positions on these matters. I need more than the fact that the Early Church Fathers taught against abortion and contraception in the Didache and that they taught about the Real Presence and so on (I’ve told him all of this already). I need some kind of definitive document so that I can say: “All you need to do is look at the Catechism. Everything in it has always been taught by the Catholic Church.” Or something like that.

Please help!

(My apologies to all who read my similar post from several days ago. I don’t think I worded my question there well enough or gave it a decent subject title either…)
 
I don’t believe a “list” actually exists.

But you might try this book: Denzinger: ***The Sources of Catholic Dogma ***for lots of info and references
 
Another book is “Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma” by Ludwig Ott.

In it is a systematic presentation of the truths of our faith, with particular statements marked as dogmatic or doctrinal or some other level.

I could probably go through it and list all the ones specified as dogma (de fide); it could be enlightening in some places. Otherwise, you can order the book online from various places.

hurst
 
I thought everything we needed to believe in was in the CCC?
 
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LaSalle:
I thought everything we needed to believe in was in the CCC?
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But where does it specify which beliefs are dogmas, which are doctrines, which are neither, etc.? Not everything is a dogma.

hurst
 
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hurst:
But where does it specify which beliefs are dogmas, which are doctrines, which are neither, etc.? Not everything is a dogma.

hurst
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This is an answer to a similar question on another website:

QUOTE

This is actually not as easy as one would like, because dogmas – truths which the Church teaches as revealed by God – are not all taught in a solemn form, spelled out in a document by some council or pope. Some dogmas are simply taught from day to day, handed on in a more ordinary manner.

There are some collections of quotations of Church documents, though, which try to show how dogmas are attested in the Church’s documents. These books are not official Church documents themselves, simply respected academic works:
    • “Enchiridion Symbolorum” (Handbook of Creeds), edited by Denzinger and Schomelzer ; presents the principal historic texts. In Latin only. (However, there is a similar English-language book for students, “The Church Teaches”
  • – “Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma” by Ludwig Ott. Presents texts about specific points of doctrine, along with Ott’s assessment of the level of authority each doctrine has reached, whether it is recognized as infallible teaching, or merely a permissible theological opinion. I don’t have this, so I don’t know a lot about it. I think TAN carries it too, so maybe you can look it over in a bookstore.
Of course, if you’re simply looking for a reliable guide to doctrine, the Catechism of the Catholic Church is the place to go.

UNQUOTE
 
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Rejoice:
Can anyone tell me what is the definitive “list” of dogmas/doctrines we must believe? I assume this is related to the list of dogmas/doctrines that have not changed over time. I’m trying to defend the assertion that the Catholic Church has not changed its positions over time. My friend wants to see this “list” so that he can look up historically whether the Church has changed its positions on these matters. I need more than the fact that the Early Church Fathers taught against abortion and contraception in the Didache and that they taught about the Real Presence and so on (I’ve told him all of this already). I need some kind of definitive document so that I can say: “All you need to do is look at the Catechism. Everything in it has always been taught by the Catholic Church.” Or something like that.

Please help!

(My apologies to all who read my similar post from several days ago. I don’t think I worded my question there well enough or gave it a decent subject title either…)
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Here you go:

Dogmas of the Catholic Faith

Hope that is what you are looking for.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
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Nicene:
Here you go:

Dogmas of the Catholic Faith
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That is a nice list, but it is not only the dogmas of the Church, but includes lesser-ranking teachings.

De fide - truth of divine revelation (dogma)

The rest are not officially dogma, but still important. Here are some of them:
Sent. fidei proxima - doctrine regarded as dogma, but not yet defined as such
Sent. certa - doctrine pertaining to dogma and theologically certain
Sent. communis - common teaching (free opinion)
Sent. pia - pious teaching (free opinion)
Sent. probabilis - probable teaching (free opinion)

hurst
 
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Rejoice:
Can anyone tell me what is the definitive “list” of dogmas/doctrines we must believe? I assume this is related to the list of dogmas/doctrines that have not changed over time. I’m trying to defend the assertion that the Catholic Church has not changed its positions over time. My friend wants to see this “list” so that he can look up historically whether the Church has changed its positions on these matters. I need more than the fact that the Early Church Fathers taught against abortion and contraception in the Didache and that they taught about the Real Presence and so on (I’ve told him all of this already). I need some kind of definitive document so that I can say: “All you need to do is look at the Catechism. Everything in it has always been taught by the Catholic Church.” Or something like that.

Please help!

(My apologies to all who read my similar post from several days ago. I don’t think I worded my question there well enough or gave it a decent subject title either…)
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It’s summarized in a book called the Catechism of the Catholic Church**.**
 
Extract from the introductory letter to the CCC by John Paul II.

The Doctrinal Value of the Text

**The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which ** **I approved 25 June last and the publication of which ** I today order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church’s faith and of catholic doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition and the Church’s Magisterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion. May it serve the renewal to which the Holy Spirit ceaselessly calls the Church of God, the Body of Christ, on her pilgrimage to the undiminished light of the Kingdom!

The approval and publication of the Catechism of the Catholic Church represent a service which the Successor of Peter wishes to offer to the Holy Catholic Church, to all the particular Churches in peace and communion with the Apostolic See: the service, that is, of supporting and confirming the faith of all the Lord Jesus’ disciples (cf. Lk 22:32 as well as of strengthening the bonds of unity in the same apostolic faith. Therefore, I ask all the Church’s Pastors and the Christian faithful to receive this catechism in a spirit of communion and to use it assiduously in fulfilling their mission of proclaiming the faith and calling people to the Gospel life. This catechism is given to them that it may be a sure and authentic reference text for teaching catholic doctrine and particularly for preparing local catechisms. It is also offered to all the faithful who wish to deepen their knowledge of the unfathomable riches of salvation (cf. Eph 3:8). It is meant to support ecumenical efforts that are moved by the holy desire for the unity of all Christians, showing carefully the content and wondrous harmony of the catholic faith. The Catechism of the Catholic Church, lastly, is offered to every individual who asks us to give an account of the hope that is in us (cf. 1 Pt 3:15) and who wants to know what the Catholic Church believes.

This catechism is not intended to replace the local catechisms duly approved by the ecclesiastical authorities, the diocesan Bishops and the Episcopal Conferences, especially if they have been approved by the Apostolic See. It is meant to encourage and assist in the writing of new local catechisms, which take into account various situations and cultures, while carefully preserving the unity of faith and fidelity to catholic doctrine.

At the conclusion of this document presenting the Catechism of the Catholic Church, I beseech the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of the Incarnate Word and Mother of the Church, to support with her powerful intercession the catechetical work of the entire Church on every level, at this time when she is called to a new effort of evangelization. May the light of the true faith free humanity from the ignorance and slavery of sin in order to lead it to the only freedom worthy of the name (cf. Jn 8:32): that of life in Jesus Christ under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, here below and in the Kingdom of heaven, in the fullness of the blessed vision of God face to face (cf. 1 Cor 13:12; 2 Cor 5:6-8)!

Given 11 October 1992, the thirtieth anniversary of the opening of the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council, in the fourteenth year of my Pontificate.
 
Dear Rejoice:

I think there is NO “definitive” list of Catholic dogmas.

All the “lists” you find in the Ineternet or elsewhere were/are based, one way or the other, on the 1952 book by Dr. Ludwig Ott of Germany “*Grundriss der Katholischen Dogmatik,” *which was an acclaimed work during his time.

It was translated into various European languages but the most notable translations were in French and in English, both coming out in 1955.

The German-language original book is scarcely available presently and some critics say that there are glaring discrepancies between the French and English translations.

No one has been able to compare the English or French translation with the German original. And, of course, the deceased Dr. Ott is unavailable to comment!😛

As it is, the English translation “Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma” should be taken as an “unofficial” list or “reference” because of the above problem.

I join Bro. Rich, SFO, in saying that the “official” document which outlines Catholic dogmas, doctrines, and beliefs is the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

If you do not have the entire book, look for the “Compendium,” a shortened version of the CCC, which has been recently authorized by Rome for use as a catechetical resource.
 
Trying to make such a list to prove the Catholic Church does not change is going to be difficult as the statement of no change is not true. As others have pointed out there are various levels of doctrine, dogma, and what have you, but while the basis does not change, our understanding of many of them does develop over time. The Church is a dynamic living organization which grows day by day in the understanding of Our God and all that he has taught. The foundation is solid, resting on Jesus our cornerstone, but the edifice grows and Peter and his sucessors continue to guide and keep that growth in line with the will of God and what he has revealed.
 
I assume this is related to the list of dogmas/doctrines that have not changed over time. I’m trying to defend the assertion that the Catholic Church has not changed its positions over time.

That assertion is probably false, depending on how one takes it. There are many doctrines on which there was diversity of opinion before the Church rendered judgment (e.g., the doctrine of the Trinity), others that depended on previous developments (e.g., the Immaculate Conception depending on the formulation of the doctrine of original sin). So in fact, the Church has changed its positions over time, but it has not changed its positions in such a way that violates or contradicts what was previously accepted. If you conceived of Catholic dogma as a “list” of what is believed, then that list would change all of the time, but nothing would ever be removed, no new item would contradict anything on the list, and items would only be introduced in relation to previous doctrines (so that nothing is ever entirely new).

What is consistent about the Church is that the teaching authority resides in the appointed successors of the Apostles who preserve what is given in the matter I described above (which can include greater understanding and better explanation of dogmas through speculative theology).
 
Rejoice, the burden of proof is in your friend’s corner. Take the attacks one at a time. Ask him or her, “Which dogma did the Catholic Church flip flop on?” Then, if they can give you a specific one, do the research and explain it to your friend. No protestant has ever been able to prove it as far as I have experienced. And don’t worry, their assertions are sometimes malicious and confusing, there will always be an answer. It’s amazing.
 
You may be looking for something like this?

Lumen Verum Apologetics
A 30-Part Course in Defence of the Catholic Faith
by Robert M. Haddad

theworkofgod.org/Library/Apologtc/R_Haddad/Course/Contents.htm

It is based on The Faith of the Early Fathers, by Rev. William A. Jurgens which I would love to get a set of someday to read.

Anyone have an extra set that I may have for free,

Daniel Marsh
6539 Linville Drive
Brighton, MI 48116-9531 USA
 
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hurst:
Another book is “Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma” by Ludwig Ott.

In it is a systematic presentation of the truths of our faith, with particular statements marked as dogmatic or doctrinal or some other level.

I could probably go through it and list all the ones specified as dogma (de fide); it could be enlightening in some places. Otherwise, you can order the book online from various places.

hurst
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One can take the Creeds as " lists." I think Newman recommended the Athanasian creed as pretty complete. But even the Apostle’s Creed contain the nitty gritty.
 
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Rejoice:
Can anyone tell me what is the definitive “list” of dogmas/doctrines we must believe? I assume this is related to the list of dogmas/doctrines that have not changed over time. I’m trying to defend the assertion that the Catholic Church has not changed its positions over time. My friend wants to see this “list” so that he can look up historically whether the Church has changed its positions on these matters. I need more than the fact that the Early Church Fathers taught against abortion and contraception in the Didache and that they taught about the Real Presence and so on (I’ve told him all of this already). I need some kind of definitive document so that I can say: “All you need to do is look at the Catechism. Everything in it has always been taught by the Catholic Church.” Or something like that.

Please help!

(My apologies to all who read my similar post from several days ago. I don’t think I worded my question there well enough or gave it a decent subject title either…)
Click to expand...
Check out “Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma” by Dr. Ludwig Ott. The book is available from TAN and provides a summary of the dogmas as well as the Scriptural and historical reasons why the Catholic Church holds them.
 
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SFH:
Check out “Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma” by Dr. Ludwig Ott. The book is available from TAN and provides a summary of the dogmas as well as the Scriptural and historical reasons why the Catholic Church holds them.
Click to expand...
The only thing wrong with Ott’s book is that it implies the dogmas can be proved by scripture or by the written works of the Church Fathers.

That is false. The teachings of the Church, which have come to us from the apostles cannot be proved. They are not all written clearly and explicitly by the Church fathers. They are certainly not all clear and explicit in scripture. Scripture is a witness to these teachings. They are all taught, cleary, and explicitly through Tradition. The two official Church catechisms are the best summary of those teachings.
We believe these teachings are the Word of God, simply because the apostles handed them down through their successors, in the Church. Since the apostles learned from God, and God can’t lie, then the teachings must be true.
It is only in Sacred Tradition that the entire Gospel is handed down and taught clearly. Since, by definition, Tradition is NOT written, we can’t prove it by what is written.
Code: 
 For example, we all learn by tradition.  We all learned what a shoe is through tradition, for example.  Usually we learn this from our families as we grown up, before we even learn to write. We can't "prove" that we learned what a shoe is from our family, usually our parents, because they did not write it down.  It is not necessary to write down everything they taught their children. Why write down what the children already learned? But, still, we know we learned the basics teachings from our parents and families, even though we cannot prove it by writings. 
In the same way, Jesus and the apostles taught the Gospel.  They did not write it down, because why write down what is already learned?   When the apostles taught the Gospel they taught it in an organized way, the Trinity, the creed, sacraments, commandments and prayer.  This same Gospel is handed down today, in the same manner. The Church doesn't write down these teachings until they begin to be denied.  Then they are written in Church councils, catechisms, etc.
And of course, since God cannot change, His teachings cannot change. Thus the teachings of the Church cannot change. They can be understood more clearly, and more deeply, but what has been taught in the past cannot ever be taught contrary to the way it was understood in the past.
 
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