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TexanKnight
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Response: LDS believe that all other churches are abominations and that the Catholic Church is the Great and Abominable Church
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Tony888
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This has already been adressed in the last 24 hrs on this forum, but here it is againResponse: LDS believe that all other churches are abominations and that the Catholic Church is the Great and Abominable Church
There are two churches in the scriptural reference
- the church of the Lamb of God
- the church of the devil
This is in marked contrast to Protestant denominations that officially do associate the RCC with the devil. Maybe you are mixing the LDS up with these denominations?
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TexanKnight
Guest
Address it all you want. I was LDS. I was in the temple when a Catholic Priest was shown to be an agent of Satan. I read the original Mormon Doctrine when McKonkie, a future Apostle, called the Catholic Church the Great and Abominable Church. You can run from it…you can hide from it, you can try to bury it…but I was there. You can’t fool meThis has already been adressed in the last 24 hrs on this forum, but here it is again
There are two churches in the scriptural reference
The LDS church teaches the “great and abominable church” or “whore of all the earth” refers to any organization that opposes the church of the Lamb of God. The LDS church does not teach or endorse that these terms refer to any specific religion or organization. In fact, when LDS individuals have modified this definition through speculation, the First Presidency has firmly declared those speculations to be in error.
- the church of the Lamb of God
- the church of the devil
This is in marked contrast to Protestant denominations that officially do associate the RCC with the devil. Maybe you are mixing the LDS up with these denominations?
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KathleenGee
Guest
Amen…and Tony888, I read those sources…I never was Mormon, but I saw such teachings and practices in print…
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1voice
Guest
Originally Posted by TexanKnight
Response: LDS believe that all other churches are abominations and that the Catholic Church is the Great and Abominable Church
… Journal of Discourses, Vol 9 pg 312
Response: LDS believe that all other churches are abominations and that the Catholic Church is the Great and Abominable Church
How do you explain this quote from Brigham Young: “…and he that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fullness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is Antichrist.”This has already been adressed in the last 24 hrs on this forum, but here it is again
There are two churches in the scriptural reference
The LDS church teaches the “great and abominable church” or “whore of all the earth” refers to any organization that opposes the church of the Lamb of God. The LDS church does not teach or endorse that these terms refer to any specific religion or organization. In fact, when LDS individuals have modified this definition through speculation, the First Presidency has firmly declared those speculations to be in error.
- the church of the Lamb of God
- the church of the devil
This is in marked contrast to Protestant denominations that officially do associate the RCC with the devil. Maybe you are mixing the LDS up with these denominations?
… Journal of Discourses, Vol 9 pg 312
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Jerusha
Guest
He will say that this is not official doctrine, since it does not come from the four “standard works” of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith. However, it exists in LDS culture.How do you explain this quote from Brigham Young: “…and he that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fullness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is Antichrist.”
… Journal of Discourses, Vol 9 pg 312
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GaryTaylor
Guest
Posthumous rebaptisms is the latest issue with the Vatican since Benedict XVI. Rebaptism is unacceptable from a Catholic standpoint.
The largest issue is… They believe that although God is perfect now, he wasn’t always so. Once he was imperfect, as a mortal, and he had to arrive at perfection through his own labor.
According to Mormon teaching, at one point in the eternities past, this man-become-God, or “Heavenly Father,” begat the spirit body of his first son. Together with his heavenly wife, the Father raised his son in the council of the gods.
Before the creation of this world, Jesus Christ presented to his father a plan of salvation which would enable the billions of future human beings the opportunity of passing through mortality and returning to heaven, there to become gods of their own worlds. At the same time, another son of the Heavenly Father and brother of Christ offered a competing plan. When Christ’s was chosen, the rejected Lucifer led a rebellion of one-third of the population of the heavens and was cast out.
The LDS church teaches that all men must pass through mortality in human bodies before they can reach godhood. Yet their third, separate god, called the Holy Ghost, has not yet received a mortal body, even though he is considered to be another god. Mormon theology typically does not address this contradiction.
However, that’s not to say that the Holy Ghost is without any body. In fact, he has a “spiritual body,” in the actual shape of a man, with head, torso, and limbs. He can be in only one place at once (in this he’s no different from his two superiors in the Mormon “Godhead.”)
Though to the Holy Ghost is now ascribed the power of each Mormon’s individual “testimony” or feeling concerning the truth of Mormon doctrines, he was not always so honored. In fact, Joseph Smith originally acknowledged only two divine personages, referring to the Holy Ghost merely as the “mind” of the two. (Lectures on Faith, 48-49.)
Latter-Day Saints do not believe that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are the only three gods there are. Rather, they believe in (though do not worship) a “plurality” of gods, gods without number, each one ruling his own creation. Thus, the three separate gods who rule our universe are finite in power—they sustain and govern only a tiny portion of all that exists.
The other gods have either preceded or followed the Heavenly Father who organized our world. In fact, men living today on this planet will one day become gods of their own universes. As such, they will mate with heavenly wives, beget spirit children, populate new worlds, and receive the worship and obedience we are now expected to give to our particular, current God.
The Mormon founder taught that faithful Mormon men can ascend to divinity. In the King Follett Discourse, Joseph Smith said, “My Father worked out his kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same. And when I get to my kingdom [godhood], I shall present it to my Father, so that he may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take his place, and thereby become exalted myself.”
The point is Joseph Smith is who’s teaching they follow…period!
Peace
The largest issue is… They believe that although God is perfect now, he wasn’t always so. Once he was imperfect, as a mortal, and he had to arrive at perfection through his own labor.
According to Mormon teaching, at one point in the eternities past, this man-become-God, or “Heavenly Father,” begat the spirit body of his first son. Together with his heavenly wife, the Father raised his son in the council of the gods.
Before the creation of this world, Jesus Christ presented to his father a plan of salvation which would enable the billions of future human beings the opportunity of passing through mortality and returning to heaven, there to become gods of their own worlds. At the same time, another son of the Heavenly Father and brother of Christ offered a competing plan. When Christ’s was chosen, the rejected Lucifer led a rebellion of one-third of the population of the heavens and was cast out.
The LDS church teaches that all men must pass through mortality in human bodies before they can reach godhood. Yet their third, separate god, called the Holy Ghost, has not yet received a mortal body, even though he is considered to be another god. Mormon theology typically does not address this contradiction.
However, that’s not to say that the Holy Ghost is without any body. In fact, he has a “spiritual body,” in the actual shape of a man, with head, torso, and limbs. He can be in only one place at once (in this he’s no different from his two superiors in the Mormon “Godhead.”)
Though to the Holy Ghost is now ascribed the power of each Mormon’s individual “testimony” or feeling concerning the truth of Mormon doctrines, he was not always so honored. In fact, Joseph Smith originally acknowledged only two divine personages, referring to the Holy Ghost merely as the “mind” of the two. (Lectures on Faith, 48-49.)
Latter-Day Saints do not believe that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are the only three gods there are. Rather, they believe in (though do not worship) a “plurality” of gods, gods without number, each one ruling his own creation. Thus, the three separate gods who rule our universe are finite in power—they sustain and govern only a tiny portion of all that exists.
The other gods have either preceded or followed the Heavenly Father who organized our world. In fact, men living today on this planet will one day become gods of their own universes. As such, they will mate with heavenly wives, beget spirit children, populate new worlds, and receive the worship and obedience we are now expected to give to our particular, current God.
The Mormon founder taught that faithful Mormon men can ascend to divinity. In the King Follett Discourse, Joseph Smith said, “My Father worked out his kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same. And when I get to my kingdom [godhood], I shall present it to my Father, so that he may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take his place, and thereby become exalted myself.”
The point is Joseph Smith is who’s teaching they follow…period!
Peace
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KathleenGee
Guest
1Voice…
In the Catholic Church, it is the Holy Spirit at work in the Holy Father, the bishops in communion with him — and the believers…taking the whole context of Scripture with its intent…as well as moods…and how faith and the intent of God’s Son through salvation history that we interpret Scripture. We look to the Sacred Scriptures in communion with the Holy Spirit united with the faith of those before us, those today, and those of tomorrow…not one, finite man.
Mormonism denies the essential doctrine of Christianity as corrupt – the Apostles Creed, shares with Martin Luther that the Church has not been given divine authority by Christ, and subsequently, the Oral Tradition of faith in Christ given us by His 12 witnesses was not passed down, implying no Holy Spirit at work in Church.
(The Anglicans and Lutherans are more or less now in process of returning to one faith, and there are religious leaders in the Orthodox Churches that are now beginning to dialogue with the Catholic hierarchy about working on the same goal…The Orthodox in our view are the other half of our faith because their churches were founded by Christ’s apostles, whereas the Protestant religions were founded by men in protest of the hierarchy, various points well founded, but the Church reformed these issues at the Council of Trent.)
Where Mormons and Baptists and others of like mind agree is that the true faith went out at some time…Mormons say after the death of the last apostle, some Baptists think at the beginning of the Dark Ages…whose times of faith were not obscure like the name implies…and the spin coming out now from non-denominational sources that the Roman Catholic Church began under Emperor Constantine who was a pagan up until a few days before his death. He helped rebuild Christianity after the worst persecutions that almost destroyed it…through a dream or vision of putting the Cross on the shields of his soldiers…when he had no faith…
The Mormons interpret the phrase…as you have shared…professing Jesus Christ…in their context as the other poster pointed out with all their definitions and context that invalidate and to their beliefs, restore Christianity.
In the Catholic Church, it is the Holy Spirit at work in the Holy Father, the bishops in communion with him — and the believers…taking the whole context of Scripture with its intent…as well as moods…and how faith and the intent of God’s Son through salvation history that we interpret Scripture. We look to the Sacred Scriptures in communion with the Holy Spirit united with the faith of those before us, those today, and those of tomorrow…not one, finite man.
Mormonism denies the essential doctrine of Christianity as corrupt – the Apostles Creed, shares with Martin Luther that the Church has not been given divine authority by Christ, and subsequently, the Oral Tradition of faith in Christ given us by His 12 witnesses was not passed down, implying no Holy Spirit at work in Church.
(The Anglicans and Lutherans are more or less now in process of returning to one faith, and there are religious leaders in the Orthodox Churches that are now beginning to dialogue with the Catholic hierarchy about working on the same goal…The Orthodox in our view are the other half of our faith because their churches were founded by Christ’s apostles, whereas the Protestant religions were founded by men in protest of the hierarchy, various points well founded, but the Church reformed these issues at the Council of Trent.)
Where Mormons and Baptists and others of like mind agree is that the true faith went out at some time…Mormons say after the death of the last apostle, some Baptists think at the beginning of the Dark Ages…whose times of faith were not obscure like the name implies…and the spin coming out now from non-denominational sources that the Roman Catholic Church began under Emperor Constantine who was a pagan up until a few days before his death. He helped rebuild Christianity after the worst persecutions that almost destroyed it…through a dream or vision of putting the Cross on the shields of his soldiers…when he had no faith…
The Mormons interpret the phrase…as you have shared…professing Jesus Christ…in their context as the other poster pointed out with all their definitions and context that invalidate and to their beliefs, restore Christianity.
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1voice
Guest
How do you explain this quote from Brigham Young: “…and he that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fullness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is Antichrist.”
… Journal of Discourses, Vol 9 pg 312
It comes from one of the founding fathers held in highest esteem in the LDS Church… mentored by Joseph Smith. Why would Brigham Young say this, from his position of highest authority, if he didnt want it to be accepted and believed by those in the Mormon Church. From the reading I’ve done, I get the strong impression that whatever Joseph Smith or Brigham Young said… was law … to the point of giving up their wife to Joseph Smith when required by him.
… Journal of Discourses, Vol 9 pg 312
Confusing.He will say that this is not official doctrine, since it does not come from the four “standard works” of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith. However, it exists in LDS culture.
It comes from one of the founding fathers held in highest esteem in the LDS Church… mentored by Joseph Smith. Why would Brigham Young say this, from his position of highest authority, if he didnt want it to be accepted and believed by those in the Mormon Church. From the reading I’ve done, I get the strong impression that whatever Joseph Smith or Brigham Young said… was law … to the point of giving up their wife to Joseph Smith when required by him.
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KathleenGee
Guest
Smith had not challengers…and he made sweeping statements…every generation has its antichrist(s).
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Jerusha
Guest
Amen. Revelations has been repeated in some aspect or another every generation since it was written. The ECF did a marvelous work in preventing it from happening in their generations.Smith had not challengers…and he made sweeping statements…every generation has its antichrist(s).
Most LDS are so busy pronouncing “abomination” on other churches that they fail to see it in their own.
Busy integrating these statements from the CCC with my previous work.
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KathleenGee
Guest
Yes…to declare everyone else as an abomination…doesn’t cut it…but rather a deflection and fear from keeping followers to challenge prior unbeknownst claims by their new leaders.
The Deposit of Faith was provided us by Christ and the Apostles with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit…the need to erect a solid theological branch of the Church came to light with the heresy of Arianism…making Christ a beginning and an end vs Mormonism having beliefs of God and man as blurred into one…of the same substance…contrary to the belief in One God, One Creator.
The Deposit of Faith was provided us by Christ and the Apostles with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit…the need to erect a solid theological branch of the Church came to light with the heresy of Arianism…making Christ a beginning and an end vs Mormonism having beliefs of God and man as blurred into one…of the same substance…contrary to the belief in One God, One Creator.
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Sojourner61
Guest
St. Paul said it pretty clearly to the church in Galatia:
KJV: Galatians Chapter 1
[8] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
[9] As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
'Nuff said?
KJV: Galatians Chapter 1
[8] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
[9] As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
'Nuff said?
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KathleenGee
Guest
Clear to us, but not to Mormons…
correct me, but I read several times that an angel appeared to Martin Luther exhorting him to not go forward with what he did…and was the one later to ‘discover’ the pope as the anti-Christ…‘Captivity in Babylon’…where ‘it’ all began…fruit of Sola Scriptura…as a new thread just came out this weekend, that non-denominations in the USA are running now about over 40,000 factions and divisions…
Thank God, the Lutherans and Anglicans are in process of returning to be one with us, the Anglicans sooner…www.calledtocommunion.com…a site I just discovered and it is so profound in its quest for the restoration of communion of all believers as we had over 900 years ago.
correct me, but I read several times that an angel appeared to Martin Luther exhorting him to not go forward with what he did…and was the one later to ‘discover’ the pope as the anti-Christ…‘Captivity in Babylon’…where ‘it’ all began…fruit of Sola Scriptura…as a new thread just came out this weekend, that non-denominations in the USA are running now about over 40,000 factions and divisions…
Thank God, the Lutherans and Anglicans are in process of returning to be one with us, the Anglicans sooner…www.calledtocommunion.com…a site I just discovered and it is so profound in its quest for the restoration of communion of all believers as we had over 900 years ago.
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StevieD
Guest
We are talking about a cult whose members believe that the male members of the cult can become progressively perfect and then become gods in their own universes - just as their god did. We don’t need to dissect or analyse any other differences when they promote that doctrine which is the rankest possible heresy.
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Sojourner61
Guest
Do you know what is really scary? The New Apostolic Reformation(a sub-movement within the Pentecostal charismatic movement), has a teaching that we just need to ‘activate’ our ‘divine dna’ and we will become gods. Then we will subdue the earth and take over, creating a kingdom we can present to Christ when He returns. Sounds kinda similar…We are talking about a cult whose members believe that the male members of the cult can become progressively perfect and then become gods in their own universes - just as their god did. We don’t need to dissect or analyse any other differences when they promote that doctrine which is the rankest possible heresy.
Just a sidebar-no thread hijacking intended!
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Jerusha
Guest
Whew— :nope:
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