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inJESUS
Guest
Don’t bother Khalfan, i remembered where i read these scholarly words before. Is Shabir Ally a scholar now?
this is a response here:
answering-islam.de/Main/Responses/Shabir-Ally/realjesus.htm
do not trust any “scholar” check , learn, investigate and then judge.
this is a response here:
answering-islam.de/Main/Responses/Shabir-Ally/realjesus.htm
do not trust any “scholar”
check , learn, investigate and then judge.
K
Khalfan
Guest
Many things were taught by previous prophets (pbut). If mohamed (pbuh) was copying Paul or any previous scripture, why he didn’t copy those stupid logics we find in Bible? Like day and night before God creating Sun, rainbow as a covenent of flood, flat and established earth, believers will not die with poison, bitter water test, scripture crrupters will die of plague etc.
Not everything was inspired of God by Paul’s own words.
25 Now about virgins: I have no command from the Lord, but I give a judgment as one who by the Lord’s mercy is trustworthy. 26 Because of the present crisis, I think that it is good for you to remain as you are. 27 Are you married? Do not seek a divorce. **Are you unmarried? Do not look for a wife. **28 But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this. 29 What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none; 30 those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; 31 those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away. 32 I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. 33 But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— 34 and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. 35 I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.
In a day, every Christians becomes truly devoted to God, that will be the last generation of Christians. Do you think this nonsense was inspired of God?
Romans 3:7 But if **through my lie **the truth of God abounded to His glory, why am I also still being judged as a sinner? 8 And why not say (as we are slanderously reported and as some claim that we say), “Let us do evil that good may come”? Their condemnation is just.
Philippians 1:18 What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed; and in this I rejoice. Yes, and I will rejoice,
Is doing evil and lying for good is inspired of God?
Galatians 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
Was it inspired of God, even after circumsition was commanded by God (Exo 12:48, Gen 17:14) and Jesus (pbuh) asked to follow every commandmends?
2 Timothy 4:13 When you come bring the cloak which I left at Troas with Carpus, and the books, especially the parchments.
Was it inspired by God?
1 Cor 11:5 But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying disgraces her head, for she is one and the same as the woman whose head is shaved. 6 For if a woman does not cover her head, let her also have her hair cut off; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head.
1 Cor 11:15 but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her for a covering.
Is hair itself is a covering or head including hair should be covered? Was it inspired of God?
Ezekiel 18:20 "The person who sins will die The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.
Jesus (pbuh) too emphasized to follow the commandmends. But Paul,
Gal 2:21"I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."
Continue.
K
Khalfan
Guest
Continue.
Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) said he is a Messenger of God and put forward the message -Quran as the Message of God and as the evidence for his messengership. Most of its concept do match with the concepts in the OT and many other scriptures like apocrepha you have said. (The possibility of writing later and adding into the books, is still there, since disproving Quran and Islam is a 1400 year old task for Christians.) Quran and OT (not all books) is so similar in one concept which is the basic fundamentel difference in Islam and Christianity; the concept of bearing punishment for sin. While Islam says, the sinners have to bear punishment for it, Christianity say, the animals and then eventually God have taken up the punishment for our sin. While Quran and OT (Ezekiel 18) is shoulder to shoulder in that concept, Paul and later developed Christianity (including the gospel writers) teach stright opposite. It is the same event on cross that made many mystries among people and ended up in promoting Jesus (pbuh) as God by some.
Now there are two messages and two messengers. I choose the message and the messenger who preached the same message that all the prophets preached that came before him. Do you still want me to believe, Paul was a true messenger/Prophet/Desciple of God?
Even if it was written by him, how could he write about the shape of earth 1400 years ago?
“And we have made the earth egg shaped”. -Quran 79:30
“(God is) the one who created the night, the day, the sun and the moon. Each one is traveling in an orbit with its own motion.” Qur’an,21:33
“Verily, in cattle there is a lesson for yon. I give you drink from their insides, coming from a conjunction between the digested contents ( of the intestines ) and the blood, milk pure and pleasant for those who drink it.” Qur’an, 16:66
Even if it was written by him, how could he write these 1400 years ago?
Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) said he is a Messenger of God and put forward the message -Quran as the Message of God and as the evidence for his messengership. Most of its concept do match with the concepts in the OT and many other scriptures like apocrepha you have said. (The possibility of writing later and adding into the books, is still there, since disproving Quran and Islam is a 1400 year old task for Christians.) Quran and OT (not all books) is so similar in one concept which is the basic fundamentel difference in Islam and Christianity; the concept of bearing punishment for sin. While Islam says, the sinners have to bear punishment for it, Christianity say, the animals and then eventually God have taken up the punishment for our sin. While Quran and OT (Ezekiel 18) is shoulder to shoulder in that concept, Paul and later developed Christianity (including the gospel writers) teach stright opposite. It is the same event on cross that made many mystries among people and ended up in promoting Jesus (pbuh) as God by some.
Now there are two messages and two messengers. I choose the message and the messenger who preached the same message that all the prophets preached that came before him. Do you still want me to believe, Paul was a true messenger/Prophet/Desciple of God?
Homer is still subject to confirmation. Illiteracy of Mohamed (pbuh) is confirmed by historians. But ofcource, there is people who believe, he was literate. No problem, since that is not the basic reason to believe in Quran, but just one of the many many reasons. Why don’t you think this way, if he wanted a concept to be believed by people, why would he ever claim to be an illiterate? Since he can do it even if he is a learned man? Why we don’t have any other book from Mohamed (pbuh)? Why there is no record of even a single complete copy of Quran that written by prophet (pbuh)? instead we hve records that he had writers.
Even if it was written by him, how could he write about the shape of earth 1400 years ago?
“And we have made the earth egg shaped”. -Quran 79:30
“(God is) the one who created the night, the day, the sun and the moon. Each one is traveling in an orbit with its own motion.” Qur’an,21:33
“Verily, in cattle there is a lesson for yon. I give you drink from their insides, coming from a conjunction between the digested contents ( of the intestines ) and the blood, milk pure and pleasant for those who drink it.” Qur’an, 16:66
Even if it was written by him, how could he write these 1400 years ago?
K
Khalfan
Guest
Where did he “stop” currepting things?
Not proven where? in the bible? how much you want?
Check the foot note in NIV.
What Jesus (pbuh) himself believed being Son of God is mentioned in John 10:34-36 but you ignore that.
34 Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your law, ‘I SAID, YOU ARE GODS’? 35 "If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36 do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?
Even calling God, didn’t make any of those literally God or one of trinity, then how could the claim of Jesus (pbuh) been taken as his divinity, even if he ever refered himself as Son of God?
Open your Bible. You will see it right there. Why do you need link?
Mark 4:38 “Teacher, don’t you care if we drown?”
Matthew 8:23 “Lord, save us! We’re going to drown!”
Was it originally a rebuke or a prayer? (sorry the ref given earlier were wrong)
What did they call him, teacher or Lord?
K
Khalfan
Guest
I have seen Debates of Shabir Ally conducted all around the world. He himself challenged this guy for debate. Was ther any debate between them? I don’t think there was.Don’t bother Khalfan, i remembered where i read these scholarly words before. Is Shabir Ally a scholar now?
this is a response here:
answering-islam.de/Main/Responses/Shabir-Ally/realjesus.htm
do not trust any “scholar”
What Shabir given is a clear possibility and you Christians including Sam Shamoun has nothing to disprove it rather than interpreting facts the way you want.
What I see with my eyes cannot be untrusted my dear. It is not because of Shabir but my own logical reasonings.
G
Ginger2
Guest
Khalfan,
Take a moment to think about your reply to inJesus…
You suggest the Bible contradicts itself Quote: "Mark 4:38 “Teacher, don’t you care if we drown?” Matthew 8:23 “Lord, save us! We’re going to drown!”
How many disciples were on the boat? Could they not have each cried out a little differently? “Teacher” would be understandable as Jesus was their teacher. Lord would be just as appropriate as it has a broader meaning than simply a reference to God.
As for the the remark “…don’t you care if we drown.” For crying out loud. Jesus was sleeping throught he storm! Your impression of this verse seems misguided. Jesus was not concerned but his disciples were. They were afraid.
Furthermore the Koran has several contradictions. Some verses appear to say the exact oposite of others. If that doesn’t bother you, why do the above verses seem so crucial when it is two different people telling their version of the same story, as compared to one person - Mohamad - contradicting his own statements?
Take a moment to think about your reply to inJesus…
You suggest the Bible contradicts itself Quote: "Mark 4:38 “Teacher, don’t you care if we drown?” Matthew 8:23 “Lord, save us! We’re going to drown!”
How many disciples were on the boat? Could they not have each cried out a little differently? “Teacher” would be understandable as Jesus was their teacher. Lord would be just as appropriate as it has a broader meaning than simply a reference to God.
As for the the remark “…don’t you care if we drown.” For crying out loud. Jesus was sleeping throught he storm! Your impression of this verse seems misguided. Jesus was not concerned but his disciples were. They were afraid.
Furthermore the Koran has several contradictions. Some verses appear to say the exact oposite of others. If that doesn’t bother you, why do the above verses seem so crucial when it is two different people telling their version of the same story, as compared to one person - Mohamad - contradicting his own statements?
G
Ginger2
Guest
Khalfan,
As for your response to me, The Bible is made of of many books AND many copies of each book have been found. There is no descrepancy from one copy to ther next. Therefore I can say it is still in its original form.
However, ther have been and continues to this day to be, attempts to corrupt it. As a matter-of-fact corrupt Bibles are in print. But I have seen copies of the Koran which have scholars adding to and changing the verses, too.
How do you know your translation is the correct one?
As for your response to me, The Bible is made of of many books AND many copies of each book have been found. There is no descrepancy from one copy to ther next. Therefore I can say it is still in its original form.
However, ther have been and continues to this day to be, attempts to corrupt it. As a matter-of-fact corrupt Bibles are in print. But I have seen copies of the Koran which have scholars adding to and changing the verses, too.
How do you know your translation is the correct one?
K
Khalfan
Guest
I never quoted it as a contradiction. But as an evidence for Jesus (pbuh) getting promoted.
How about the below.
In the gospel of Mark (10:17-18), a man is reported to have asked Jesus, "Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life? "Jesus (pbuh) simply replied, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. You know the commandments: ‘You shall not murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; You shall not defraud; Honor your father and mother.’ "
Look at the same event in Matthew. “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. …” (Matthew 19:16-17)
Would you still say, it was two different disciples asking or it was two different Jesus answering?!!
Quote something.
Anyway it is out of topic.
K
Khalfan
Guest
Read just the resurrection part in 4 Gospels. You will see how problamatic it is.
G
Ginger2
Guest
Khalfan,
I misunderstood your point. The Deity of Jesus is too complicated to be studied in a forum.
I need to first say that I did not look up the following examples of contradictions in the Koran as it would take more time than I have right now. I apologize for that. However, I did read the Koran about a year or two ago. Anyway, here are a couple examples:
The Israelites repented about worshipping the golden calf BEFORE Moses returned from the mountain [7:149], yet they refused to repent but rather continued to worship the calf until Moses came back [20:91]. Does Aaron share in their guilt? No [20:85-90], yes [20:92, 7:151].
Jesus is raised to Allah, [Sura 4:158], near stationed with him [Sura 3:45], worshiped by millions of Christians, yet Sura 21:98 says, that all that are worshiped by men besides Allah will burn in Hell together with those who worship them.
In Sura 10:92, Allah speaks to Pharaoh who ferociously chased the Children of Israel, “But this day We save you in your body, that you may be a portent for those after you.” Although this verse makes it clear that Allah saved Pharaoh from drowning, Suras 28:40, 17:103, and 43:55 contradict this, stating that Pharaoh was drowned: “Therefore We seized him and his hosts and abandoned them unto the sea … But We drowned him and those with him, all together … And [We] drowned them, everyone.”
Below are examples of inacuracies:
Mary: According to the Quran (Surah 19:28, 3:33-36), Mary, the mother of Jesus, was the daughter of Imran or Amram, the father of Moses and Aaron. Mary is also said to be the sister of Moses and Aaron. Clearly Muhammad confused Mary with Miriam.
Alexander the Great: According to the Quran (Surah 18:89-98) Alexander the Great was a devout Muslim and lived to a ripe old age. Historical records however show that Alexander the Great died young at 33 years of age (b. 356 B.C. - d. 323 B.C.), and believed he was divine, forcing others to recognize him as such. In India on the Hyphasis River (now Beas) Alexander erected twelve altars to twelve Olympian gods. Once again the Quran shows errors in historical and religious fact.
I misunderstood your point. The Deity of Jesus is too complicated to be studied in a forum.
I need to first say that I did not look up the following examples of contradictions in the Koran as it would take more time than I have right now. I apologize for that. However, I did read the Koran about a year or two ago. Anyway, here are a couple examples:
The Israelites repented about worshipping the golden calf BEFORE Moses returned from the mountain [7:149], yet they refused to repent but rather continued to worship the calf until Moses came back [20:91]. Does Aaron share in their guilt? No [20:85-90], yes [20:92, 7:151].
Jesus is raised to Allah, [Sura 4:158], near stationed with him [Sura 3:45], worshiped by millions of Christians, yet Sura 21:98 says, that all that are worshiped by men besides Allah will burn in Hell together with those who worship them.
In Sura 10:92, Allah speaks to Pharaoh who ferociously chased the Children of Israel, “But this day We save you in your body, that you may be a portent for those after you.” Although this verse makes it clear that Allah saved Pharaoh from drowning, Suras 28:40, 17:103, and 43:55 contradict this, stating that Pharaoh was drowned: “Therefore We seized him and his hosts and abandoned them unto the sea … But We drowned him and those with him, all together … And [We] drowned them, everyone.”
Below are examples of inacuracies:
Mary: According to the Quran (Surah 19:28, 3:33-36), Mary, the mother of Jesus, was the daughter of Imran or Amram, the father of Moses and Aaron. Mary is also said to be the sister of Moses and Aaron. Clearly Muhammad confused Mary with Miriam.
Alexander the Great: According to the Quran (Surah 18:89-98) Alexander the Great was a devout Muslim and lived to a ripe old age. Historical records however show that Alexander the Great died young at 33 years of age (b. 356 B.C. - d. 323 B.C.), and believed he was divine, forcing others to recognize him as such. In India on the Hyphasis River (now Beas) Alexander erected twelve altars to twelve Olympian gods. Once again the Quran shows errors in historical and religious fact.
K
Khalfan
Guest
Dear Ginger 2,
Do you really want an answer for these? Becasue if you are confirmed and concluded the problems as error, my answers will not change anything. Or if, there is something that you want to know why is it in the Quran, I will answer you. I didn’t gor for contradictions in Bible, but pointed some of the evidence for Jesus (pbuh) getting promoted from a man to God, and not only for you but the entire christianity, it is impossible to understand the deity of Jesus or trinity of God. In whichever way you start to explain it, you will have to end up with an unexplainable mystery. I do welcome, if you can explain that one question I have asked about promoting Jesus (pbuh).
Verse 20:91 is a statement of intent by the Israelites, it is not an historical event. Aaron [20:85-90] tried to prevent the idolatry and then Moses thinks that Aaron has not done enough to prevent it. There is no contradiction!
It explained here.
His body is to be preserved (saved) and is saved.
Language usage, just as Elizabeth is daughter of Aron (Lk 1:5).
It explained here.
Who told you, Dhul-Karnain is the same Alexander the great?
Many of the alleged contras are explained here.
A helpful link on Quran
G
Ginger2
Guest
Yes, I did want an answer. Not to make you question your faith, nor for you to convince me.
I asked so I can understand how you rationalize these apparently contraditory verses.
I appreciate your taking the time. Thank you very much.
I asked so I can understand how you rationalize these apparently contraditory verses.
I appreciate your taking the time. Thank you very much.
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