Which Coptic church is part of Catholic faith?

[IrishPops]

Hi All, new member here. I have searched through previous posts/threads and I am still not sure about the answer to my question. My wife and oldest daughter teach at a Catholic school and were recently asked a question on the Coptic faith. Basically, there is a child at the shool (just enrolled) whose parents are Coptic christians, and believe their child should be able to receive communion when their class goes to Mass. The mother says they are “Coptic Orthodox”, and that they are are a sect recognized at by the Catholic church, and that they are free to receive communion in the Roman Catholic(Latin Rite) church. My understanding is that there are two Coptic church’s & that the Coptic Christian church is part of the Church of Rome, but that the Coptic Orthodox is not. However, trying to find a definitive explanation or teaching has been very difficult. Am I correct in my understanding on which church is in communion with the Roman Catholic church? And if I am correct, is there a source that can be consulted to finally resolve the confusion? Since the mother of the child has been so insistent, the school has not pressed the issue. However, it would be helpful to know for sure, and be able to explain to the parents of the child who is eligble to receive communion at a Catholic church. The child’s class will be going to Mass next week so any help or advice is welcome

 

[bkovacs]

cnewa.us/default.aspx?ID=63&IndexView&pagetypeID=9&sitecode=US&pageno=1

 

[IrishPops]

Thanks for the link, it was helpful in explaining some of the history. It sounds like I was correct in assuming that there are two (2) distinct Coptic churches. One is the Coptic Catholic church, which is in full communion with Rome. The other would be the Coptic Orthodox church, which is NOT in communion with Rome, and their followers would not be able to receive the sacraments in a Roman Catholic church. Does this sound right? If so, then the school would just need to verify which Coptic church the family belongs to. Also, is it correct to say the Coptic Catholic church is under a Patriarchal Vicar who accepts the primacy of the Pope, while the Coptic Orthodox has their own leader who they call a pope? Thanks again advance for assistance!

 

[ConstantineTG]

This thread should be in the Eastern Catholic Forum.

A Patriarch is called a Patriarch, not Patriarchial Vicar. Yes, there is the Patriarch of Alexandria who is the head of the Coptic Church. The Coptic Orthodox Patriarch is also called a Pope. The first Patriarch of Alexandria is St. Mark the Evangelist.

There is a Coptic Catholic Church which is in communion with Rome, but they are very few. The Coptic Orthodox Church is a larger group. They are neither in communion with Rome or with the Eastern Orthodox. They are known as the non-Chalcedonian Church because of their rejection of the Ecumenical Council of Chalcedon (Fourth Ecumenical Council) and left the communion of the Church then.

 

[Filii_Dei]

Hi All, new member here. I have searched through previous posts/threads and I am still not sure about the answer to my question. My wife and oldest daughter teach at a Catholic school and were recently asked a question on the Coptic faith. Basically, there is a child at the shool (just enrolled) whose parents are Coptic christians, and believe their child should be able to receive communion when their class goes to Mass. The mother says they are “Coptic Orthodox”, and that they are are a sect recognized at by the Catholic church, and that they are free to receive communion in the Roman Catholic(Latin Rite) church. My understanding is that there are two Coptic church’s & that the Coptic Christian church is part of the Church of Rome, but that the Coptic Orthodox is not. However, trying to find a definitive explanation or teaching has been very difficult. Am I correct in my understanding on which church is in communion with the Roman Catholic church? And if I am correct, is there a source that can be consulted to finally resolve the confusion? Since the mother of the child has been so insistent, the school has not pressed the issue. However, it would be helpful to know for sure, and be able to explain to the parents of the child who is eligble to receive communion at a Catholic church. The child’s class will be going to Mass next week so any help or advice is welcome

Of the two Coptic Churches, only a Coptic Catholic is ordinarily permitted to receive communion in a Catholic Mass. As far as I am aware, the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox are permitted to receive sacraments from the other if the need is great and they cannot find a priest of their communion nearby, but I do not know if the same applies to Oriental Orthodox, which the Coptic Orthodox Church belongs to.

The surest way would be to ask the parents the name of the parish they regularly attend. Following that, you can check the parish name on Google against a list of Coptic Catholic or Orthodox parishes or find other clues to ascertain if they are Orthodox or Catholic.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Of the two Coptic Churches, only a Coptic Catholic is ordinarily permitted to receive communion in a Catholic Mass. As far as I am aware, the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox are permitted to receive sacraments from the other if the need is great and they cannot find a priest of their communion nearby, but I do not know if the same applies to Oriental Orthodox, which the Coptic Orthodox Church belongs to.

The surest way would be to ask the parents the name of the parish they regularly attend. Following that, you can check the parish name on Google against a list of Coptic Catholic or Orthodox parishes or find other clues to ascertain if they are Orthodox or Catholic.

Curiously though, the Oriental Orthodox are closer to communion with the Eastern Orthodox and the Catholic Church than the Catholics and Eastern Orthodox are to each other.

 

[Filii_Dei]

Curiously though, the Oriental Orthodox are closer to communion with the Eastern Orthodox and the Catholic Church than the Catholics and Eastern Orthodox are to each other.

I suppose it helps that they lack the long, bitter and acrimonious history which its two larger brothers share.

Now that you mention it, perhaps this may be the greatest gift they can bring to the table. Despite being the smallest of the three, they may yet prove pivotal as a mediator of Catholic-Orthodox-Orthodox reconciliation. I am sure that every Church has their part to play in the rebirth of the OHCAC.

 

[malphono]

Of the two Coptic Churches, only a Coptic Catholic is ordinarily permitted to receive communion in a Catholic Mass. As far as I am aware, the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox are permitted to receive sacraments from the other if the need is great and they cannot find a priest of their communion nearby, but I do not know if the same applies to Oriental Orthodox, which the Coptic Orthodox Church belongs to.

Yes, it does. Canon 844 of the CIC is applicable.

The surest way would be to ask the parents the name of the parish they regularly attend. Following that, you can check the parish name on Google against a list of Coptic Catholic or Orthodox parishes or find other clues to ascertain if they are Orthodox or Catholic.

If the folks are Coptic Orthodox and they normally attend a Coptic Orthodox church, it would seem to me that it’s not very likely they’d be interested in receiving communion elsewhere, at least not on a regular basis. They may, however, so wish on an exceptional basis, and Canon 844 sub 3 allows this: (emphasis added):

Catholic ministers administer the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick licitly to members of Eastern Churches which do not have full communion with the Catholic Church if they seek such on their own accord and are properly disposed. This is also valid for members of other Churches which in the judgment of the Apostolic See are in the same condition in regard to the sacraments as these Eastern Churches.

 

[Filii_Dei]

If the folks are Coptic Orthodox and they normally attend a Coptic Orthodox church, it would seem to me that it’s not very likely they’d be interested in receiving communion elsewhere, at least not on a regular basis. They may, however, so wish on an exceptional basis, and Canon 844 sub 3 allows this: (emphasis added):

I agree with you on the matter of likelihood. But as IrishPops mentioned, the parents demanded to be permitted to receive communion despite knowing that it was a Catholic church. If they were Coptic Orthodox, they should be aware that they are not in communion with the Catholic Church, and are ordinarily are not permitted to receive the sacraments without grave reason. Exceptions are given in Canon Law, but they are intended to be an exception, not habitual.

If, on the other hand, they truly were Coptic Catholics, it would be strange that they introduced themselves as “Coptic Orthodox”, given that Coptic Catholics are likely to be aware of the Coptic Orthodox Church and would realise the implications of such a descriptor, especially in a Catholic setting.

Alternatively, they could simply be one of those who subscribe to the notion of: “it is better to receive communion from a separated church than to not receive at all”. :yukonjoe:

 

[iohanne]

From the perspective of Catholicism, both Oriental Orthodox Christians and Eastern Orthodox Christians are theologically permitted to participate in our sacraments. The problem is that their bishops and hierarchs do not allow them to participate in our sacraments so in order to respect the decision of their hierarchs, it is a discouraged practice.

I highly, highly, highly suggest that you ask the parents to get the permission of the local Coptic Orthodox bishop first.

 

[IrishPops]

Thank you all for your thoughts and advice. In this case, I believe it is the mother who just wants her child to receive communion with the rest of her new classmates. Sadly, the mother probably isn’t as well versed in her own religion to know that cross-communion may not be allowed (since the mother stated they are Coptic Orthodox). I say this because the Coptic Orthodox church is not in full communion with Rome, and don’t believe there is any imminent danger to the child( that might permit or allow receiving communion in the Catholic church). And equally as sad, not many at the Catholic school where my wife and daughter work have a clear understanding of the situation, or that this is something that should be checked before just allowing the child to receive communion. Of course, I must admit that my own understanding is based on a Catholic School education from long ago, and my knowlege of many subjects has faded. My hunch was that there were 2 Coptic churches, and the Orthodox church was the church that was not in full communion with Rome. This would preclude the child from receiving communion with her classmates. There would be no embarrassment here since there are other non-Catholic students at the school, and all are welcome to come up to the Priest (at Communion time) for a blessing. Fortunately this forum exists where ideas and knowledge can be exchanged to help others learn the facts… Now if I could only remember where I put the car keys…

 

[iohanne]

Thank you all for your thoughts and advice. In this case, I believe it is the mother who just wants her child to receive communion with the rest of her new classmates. Sadly, the mother probably isn’t as well versed in her own religion to know that cross-communion may not be allowed (since the mother stated they are Coptic Orthodox). I say this because the Coptic Orthodox church is not in full communion with Rome, and don’t believe there is any imminent danger to the child( that might permit or allow receiving communion in the Catholic church). And equally as sad, not many at the Catholic school where my wife and daughter work have a clear understanding of the situation, or that this is something that should be checked before just allowing the child to receive communion. Of course, I must admit that my own understanding is based on a Catholic School education from long ago, and my knowlege of many subjects has faded. My hunch was that there were 2 Coptic churches, and the Orthodox church was the church that was not in full communion with Rome. This would preclude the child from receiving communion with her classmates. There would be no embarrassment here since there are other non-Catholic students at the school, and all are welcome to come up to the Priest (at Communion time) for a blessing. Fortunately this forum exists where ideas and knowledge can be exchanged to help others learn the facts… Now if I could only remember where I put the car keys…

Again, it all depends on whether the Coptic Orthodox bishop that her family is under would allow it. If he would allow it, we would allow it too.

 

[MikeDunphy]

I… don’t believe there is any imminent danger to the child( that might permit or allow receiving communion in the Catholic church).

As far as Catholic canon law is concerned, no emergency is needed for the child to be able to receive Holy Communion at a Catholic church. See posts by malphono and iohanne, above.

 

[babochka]

It really seems to me that this is a situation in which the priest ought to be consulted. He will be in a position to help determine the correct course of action.