Which gets the soul?

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devoutchristian said:
Yes it does.
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Let me put up an exact quotation:

Some people try to justify abortion by claiming that the result of conception, at least up to a certain number of days, cannot yet be considered a personal human life. But in fact, “from the time that the ovum is fertilized, a life is begun that is neither that of the father nor the mother; it is rather the life of a new human being with his own growth.” (Evangelium Vitae 60, quoting Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Declaration on Procured Abortion 12)

-Pope John Paul II.

John Paul II says that “Life begins when an ovum is fertilized.”
In the problem I posted in the OP, there was only one single fertilization of an ovum.

Therefore, according to John Paul II, there was only one single human life/soul.
 
runningdude said:
Conception is defined as when a new individual is formed.
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Defined by whom? Not the Catholic Church- not John Paul II or almost every pro-life organization in the world;

Why don’t I pull out a -real- dictionary?

“conception: fertilization; inception of pregnancy”
 
Why don’t we all just admit that the Chirch has left the issue of the moment of individual ensoulment open?

What we do know is: where there is a live human body, there is a soul.

Life begins at the time of biological conception.

Everybody has an individual soul, and the soul is the life.

Relatively rare cases such as twins or zygotes merging are not even discernible by natural means until long after they occur; but the human beings that result still have a soul.

Forced explanations such as “sharing a soul” only confuse matters more.

If the Church won’t say when the soul begins in special cases, I for one won’t get ahead of it.

ICXC NIKA
 
Gaerteuth said:
Let me put up an exact quotation:

Some people try to justify abortion by claiming that the result of conception, at least up to a certain number of days, cannot yet be considered a personal human life. But in fact, “from the time that the ovum is fertilized, a life is begun that is neither that of the father nor the mother; it is rather the life of a new human being with his own growth.” (Evangelium Vitae 60, quoting Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Declaration on Procured Abortion 12)

-Pope John Paul II.

John Paul II says that “Life begins when an ovum is fertilized.”
In the problem I posted in the OP, there was only one single fertilization of an ovum.

Therefore, according to John Paul II, there was only one single human life/soul.
Click to expand...
So each conception produces a soul (contrary to what some keep alleging for some reason). Now find me the word “only” in one of those documents.
 
Gaerteuth said:
Let me put up an exact quotation:

Some people try to justify abortion by claiming that the result of conception, at least up to a certain number of days, cannot yet be considered a personal human life. But in fact, “from the time that the ovum is fertilized, a life is begun that is neither that of the father nor the mother; it is rather the life of a new human being with his own growth.” (Evangelium Vitae 60, quoting Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Declaration on Procured Abortion 12)

-Pope John Paul II.

John Paul II says that “Life begins when an ovum is fertilized.”
In the problem I posted in the OP, there was only one single fertilization of an ovum.

Therefore, according to John Paul II, there was only one single human life/soul.
Click to expand...
Why does a single fertilization mean that there is only a singe soul. Could not two souls be infused and then divide the cell? Could the presence of two souls be the reason for the division of the cell?
 
Joe_Kelley said:
Why does a single fertilization mean that there is only a singe soul. Could not two souls be infused and then divide the cell? Could the presence of two souls be the reason for the division of the cell?
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Because at that point you’re entering the realm of heresy. “Two souls in one cell” is against everything that Catholic theology of the soul stands for.
 
Gaerteuth said:
Let me put up an exact quotation:

Some people try to justify abortion by claiming that the result of conception, at least up to a certain number of days, cannot yet be considered a personal human life. But in fact, “from the time that the ovum is fertilized, a life is begun that is neither that of the father nor the mother; it is rather the life of a new human being with his own growth.” (Evangelium Vitae 60, quoting Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Declaration on Procured Abortion 12)

-Pope John Paul II.

John Paul II says that “Life begins when an ovum is fertilized.”
Click to expand...
Pope John Paul II does not state that only time that life can be begin.

Even if it did, this is not a formal declaration of dogma. There is still room for correction based on new theological or biological insight.
 
Gaerteuth said:
Defined by whom? Not the Catholic Church- not John Paul II or almost every pro-life organization in the world;

Why don’t I pull out a -real- dictionary?

“conception: fertilization; inception of pregnancy”
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Then “conception” strictly defined as “fertilization” is not the only means for human life to be formed. As I stated, the church acknowledges cloning as a non-fertilizing means of producing human life, though it condemns this method as immoral. A twin splitting off of his sibling would seems to be another means, natural and moral, for human life to be produced. I am not stating anything contrary to established teachings.

Frankly, you seem more bent on justifying your lack of faith (“Catholic → None”) than getting an honest answer to your question. You attack every reasonable answer given, seeming to try to prove a gap in Catholic teaching that doesn’t exist. If you already had an answer to your question, than why did you ask it?
 
Joe_Kelley said:
Where is that stated? What is the exact wording of the statement?
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Gaerteuth gave one example earlier. I assume there are other examples:

Some people try to justify abortion by claiming that the result of conception, at least up to a certain number of days, cannot yet be considered a personal human life. But in fact, “from the time that the ovum is fertilized, a life is begun that is neither that of the father nor the mother; it is rather the life of a new human being with his own growth.” (Evangelium Vitae 60, quoting Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Declaration on Procured Abortion 12)

The soul is the animating force of a human life. If a fertilized ovum is a distinct human being, then it can only have one soul. Of course, this argument does not specifically address the split zygote, so can’t be extrapolated too far.

This is why I propose that when cells break off to become an identical twin, these cells are given a unique soul at that moment. You are free to disagree, so I won’t push the issue. Jim Blackburn even posits your theory as a potential explanation (forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=16880).
 
runningdude said:
…
Some people try to justify abortion by claiming that the result of conception, at least up to a certain number of days, cannot yet be considered a personal human life. But in fact, “from the time that the ovum is fertilized, a life is begun that is neither that of the father nor the mother; it is rather the life of a new human being with his own growth.” (Evangelium Vitae 60, quoting Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Declaration on Procured Abortion 12)

The soul is the animating force of a human life. If a fertilized ovum is a distinct human being, then it can only have one soul. Of course, this argument does not specifically address the split zygote, so can’t be extrapolated too far…
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I would read EV to say that the new being is independent of the Father and mother. I don’t think it denies that it could be two unique human beings with conjoined bodies. Siamese twins are two unique, distinct human beings; though they do not have completely independent bodies. In some cases they share vital body parts.
 
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