Which Resurrection Apologetic do you Prefer?

[Nita]

…Since you say Mary would have taken off before the angel spoke to “the women” (plural), who was the angel talking to? Can you name these women please?

Quite often Vic you ask for names. I hope you realize there were women present at Jesus’ tomb on Sunday morning whose names are nowhere given in the gospel resurrection accounts.

Luke 24:10 Now it was Mary Mag’dalene and Jo-an’na and Mary the mother of James and the **other women **with them who told this to the apostles;

Now, Salome could have been one of those “other women”, but we just don’t know any other names, and neither do we know just how many “other women” there were.

 

[glendab]

I grew up Catholic and used to be a full believer. I read the Bible cover to cover several times.

And, as I’ve said, if this god sets up a binary system of choice whereby the wrong one could result in him assigning me to unbelievably horrible suffering, the very least he can do is to, at least, prove he exists.

Vic, I really feel for you. I’m a convert so I had my days of non-belief. Many and long ago. I wouldn’t trade anything I had back then for what I have now. It is that simple. I’ve heard a million arguments against God, my dad was an atheist and very good at his theology though he would refuse to call it that. It seems that is where you are headed. And you only have yourself to thank for that, not God. If you truly have read a Bible cover to cover and have decided to toss it till God proves Himself to you personally then why bother us about your problems? That is a matter of faith, not scholarship. It IS solved by prayer.

Yes, many have taken the time to try and defend what we believe but you refuse to acknowledge the simple scholarship of the humble persons who’ve taken the time to “talk” to you here. You don’t come here to heal your ailing faith but to detract from it and have cheap laughs at us who DO believe. That is rude.

Your statement that you grew up Catholic and have now shed all that superstition because you actually read a Bible is an insult to every catholic here. Why is it okay for you to behave that way? Do you really feel superior to all of us?

Glenda

 

[vicwestlad]

Nita:

Maybe it’s that you’re a terrible reader

Not only are you now stooping to ad hominem, you’ve lapsed into denying that rules of grammar apply to the gospels if they don’t fit your view. If Matthew identifies the women at the start of his narrative as specifically Mary Magdalene and the “other Mary” in the first sentence and subsequently uses “the women” and “they” and mentions no one else then it would break the rules of pronoun-antecedent agreement to claim that it wasn’t they who talked to the angels and who met Jesus on the way to tell the disciples he had risen:

Now after the sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, **Mary Mag′dalene and the other Mary **went to see the sepulchre. And behold, there was a great earthquake; for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone, and sat upon it. His appearance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow. And for fear of him the guards trembled and became like dead men. But the angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid; for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. He is not here; for he has risen, as he said. Come, see the place where he lay. Then go quickly and tell his disciples that he has risen from the dead, and behold, he is going before you to Galilee; there you will see him. Lo, I have told you.” So they departed quickly from the tomb with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples. And behold, Jesus met them and said, “Hail!” And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him. Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid; go and tell my brethren to go to Galilee, and there they will see me.”

It’s not that I’m a terrible reader to think that it was Mary Magdalene and the other Mary who left the tomb with “great joy” and met Jesus on the way. That’s the way grammar works. To use your disregard for the rules of grammar, I could just as easily say it was the angels who met Jesus and worshiped his feed.

Nita:

Examine the synoptics. They are not a presentation of individual accounts by the participating women.

Of course not. Their narration involves groups but not because they “conflated” individual accounts that were different. As long as you don’t break the rules of grammar, as you keep doing out of convenience, their traditions just had different recollections such as demonstrated by Matthew above.

Nita:

Mary got up while it was still dark in order to come to Our Lord’s tomb and anoint His body.

Right, you’re going by John who said:

John:

Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came early to the tomb, while it was still dark, and saw the stone already taken away from the tomb.

So Mary came to the tomb when it was still dark. So how do you square this with Mark here:

Mark:

When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought spices, so that they might come and anoint Him. Very early on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen.

Did she come to the tomb to anoint him when it was still dark or when the sun had risen?

 

[vicwestlad]

glendab:

Vic, I really feel for you.

Like I said before, why would you since I’m great and happy?

glendab:

I’ve heard a million arguments against God, my dad was an atheist and very good at his theology though he would refuse to call it that. It seems that is where you are headed. And you only have yourself to thank for that, not God.

Actually I have my reasoning abilities to thank for discarding what I personally perceive as supernatural claims that have insufficient evidence.

glendab:

If you truly have read a Bible cover to cover and have decided to toss it till God proves Himself to you personally then why bother us about your problems?

Glendab, I shouldn’t have to tell you again, but this is an apologetics forum. If debating points of theology like inerrancy, you shouldn’t participate.

glendab:

That is a matter of faith, not scholarship. It IS solved by prayer.

How right you are.

glendab:

Yes, many have taken the time to try and defend what we believe but you refuse to acknowledge the simple scholarship of the humble persons who’ve taken the time to “talk” to you here.

Em…nope…I simply disagree

glendab:

Your statement that you grew up Catholic and have now shed all that superstition because you actually read a Bible is an insult to every catholic here.

Are you denying it’s superstitious to think that deafness and muteness is caused by evil spirits? That’s what I said. If you find the idea that evil spirits causing deafness and muteness is superstitious thinking to be insulting then you’re probably too thin skinned to be participating in an apologetics forum

glendab:

Do you really feel superior to all of us?

I’m a humanist so I don’t feel superior to anyone. Really, glendab, I have no intention of upsetting you so I think I’ll just not respond to your posts on this thread. I was interested in debating the inerrancy of the resurrection accounts, not the failings of my character.

 

[Nita]

Did she come to the tomb to anoint him when it was still dark or when the sun had risen?

Both.
BTW, “came” is not necessarilly synonomous with “arrived”. In other words, to say someone was coming at early dawn does not necessarily mean they arrived while it was still early dawn.