Which side are you on? (When to preach and when not to)

[Joysong]

Have you ever tried to share God’s truth with a hostile group of people who oppose beliefs that you hold sacred? At times, I find within me a deep peace coupled with ardent prayer when I am in the presence of opposition and nothing is able to shake it, nor am I prevented from praying for these people with sincere love. The unction of the Holy Spirit is strengthening me as I send forth God’s word.

Maybe you puzzled as I have done, why are there other times when you are in territory that is so hostile that your spirit groans under the weight of opposition, and there is no peaceful unction whatsoever – only heaviness, sometimes anger, often an inability to pray. What is the difference that helps us discern when to “share” our convictions? I was blessed to listen to a broadcast last evening that opened up windows of light for me!

Scripture tells us that Jesus’s ministry was basically confined to west of the Jordan. On one occasion, He crossed the sea to the east and entered Gerasen to heal a demonic in that territory; the land was so corrupt that the people asked Him to depart from there. Mt. 28:34. Incidentally, this was the very land where the Lord told Elias to hide.

3Kings 17:3 Go from here towards the east and hide thyself by the torrent of Carith, which is east of the Jordan, 4 And there thou shalt drink of the torrent: and I have commanded the ravens to feed thee there. And the ravens brought him bread and flesh in the morning, and bread and flesh in the evening, and he drank of tile torrent. 7 But after some time the torrent was dried up, for it had not rained upon the earth. 8 Then the word of the Lord came to him, saying: 9 Arise, and go to Sarephta of the Sidonians, and dwell there: for I have commanded a widow woman there to feed thee.

But there was ONE person whom God knew could be trusted, and to whom He sent the prophet for food. And this was KEY for me! God had prepared the way for Elias. The woman had been “commanded” by God beforehand, and both persons were open to each other. That is the difference … to await the inward sense of God’s leading, and if there is no peace when we enter a territory where people are foaming at the mouth, it is best to flee before their spittle infects us.
I remembered the 23rd Psalm: In “verdant” pastures, He leads me … He refreshes my soul! He anoints my head with oil!" We need to find the pasture where life is being breathed to us with new vision, new hope, new strengthening for our gifts and talents to be used for God’s glory. We do not find Him, nor can we minister effectively in the land of Gerasen, east of the Jordan, but in the pastures of Galilee.

A blessed Easter to everyone, rejoicing in the victory Our Lord has won on our behalf. May we all experience His new “life!” within us.

Carole

 

[Indyann]

Have you ever tried to share God’s truth with a hostile group of people who oppose beliefs that you hold sacred? At times, I find within me a deep peace coupled with ardent prayer when I am in the presence of opposition and nothing is able to shake it, nor am I prevented from praying for these people with sincere love. The unction of the Holy Spirit is strengthening me as I send forth God’s word.

Maybe you puzzled as I have done, why are there other times when you are in territory that is so hostile that your spirit groans under the weight of opposition, and there is no peaceful unction whatsoever – only heaviness, sometimes anger, often an inability to pray. What is the difference that helps us discern when to “share” our convictions? I was blessed to listen to a broadcast last evening that opened up windows of light for me!

Scripture tells us that Jesus’s ministry was basically confined to west of the Jordan. On one occasion, He crossed the sea to the east and entered Gerasen to heal a demonic in that territory; the land was so corrupt that the people asked Him to depart from there. Mt. 28:34. Incidentally, this was the very land where the Lord told Elias to hide.

But there was ONE person whom God knew could be trusted, and to whom He sent the prophet for food. And this was KEY for me! God had prepared the way for Elias. The woman had been “commanded” by God beforehand, and both persons were open to each other. That is the difference … to await the inward sense of God’s leading, and if there is no peace when we enter a territory where people are foaming at the mouth, it is best to flee before their spittle infects us.
I remembered the 23rd Psalm: In “verdant” pastures, He leads me … He refreshes my soul! He anoints my head with oil!" We need to find the pasture where life is being breathed to us with new vision, new hope, new strengthening for our gifts and talents to be used for God’s glory. We do not find Him, nor can we minister effectively in the land of Gerasen, east of the Jordan, but in the pastures of Galilee.

A blessed Easter to everyone, rejoicing in the victory Our Lord has won on our behalf. May we all experience His new “life!” within us.

Carole

Thank you Carole. This is exactly the message I needed to hear today.
The very sad thing is that the people of Garean are members of my immediate family.
My own daughter quit practicing her faith and has been “saved” in some non-denominational church about 7 years ago. Her husband and his parents are somewhat anti-catholic.

About 2 or 3 weeks ago, my daughter and I got into a minor spat (by way of e-mail).
Since she believes in sola scriptura, it ended up being a verse slinging event.

When she said I didn’t repect her “opinions”, the only thing I could find in the NIV(which she gave me as a gift) was the very quote in your signature. However in the NIV it reads “A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing his own opinions.”

So, of course she took this as I was calling her a fool, rather than that she was being taught foolish things that are unscriptural.

I wanted to throw out the “do not cast your pearls before swine” verse, but thank God I was not that stupid.

So I want to thank you for this post and please pray for me.

 

[Joysong]

Dear Indyann,

I do hear your heart, and share your pain! Coincidentally, many in my family don’t practice their faith either, not even in a nondenominational church. Long ago, I knew it was not a wise practice to preach to them about God or religion – they aren’t ready or open. Nevertheless, I remembered that persons who never even heard of God are not exempt from obeying the law of their conscience, which is hopefully not so malformed as to think evil is good.

After I finished my post, since I am still meditating on the program I watched last night, another scripture came to mind. The apostles had tried to spread the word in Asia, Mysia and Troas but the Holy Spirit kept preventing them. [Acts 16:6-9] Finally, since they were apparently not quite “getting it,” Paul had a vision showing him to go into Macedonia instead. These others were just not ready for the Word of God. It comforts me knowing that their discernment had to develop also.

We can learn to trust our gut feelings which are always accompanied by peace and an open door of receptivity when God is leading and ready to interact with our loved ones. Sometimes it will be another whom God will use, rather than us. We just keep up our prayers so the graces flow their way.

Yes, I’ll pray for you and your family, and if you think of it, maybe send one up for me, too.
In the faith your daughter is embracing, it does not surprise me that she is being shown some terrible things about catholicism. I wish I could send you hope that it will all go away and get better. Reminds me of parents who had to kidnap their own children from cults and de-program them with the help of professionals. The propaganda is really that strong in some protestant religions, sad to say — and even in our own rite, there are horrible divisions.

 

[Indyann]

Thank you for more inspirational words and I will remember you and your intentions in my prayers.

Tomorrow (Easter Sunday) I am going into “hostile territory” as my daughter is having Easter dinner and has invited all her in-laws, as well as all of our family. Now these people are all very good Christians, but still anti-catholic in attitude.

My other children do not practice their faith, but have not embraced another faith. They are lazy Catholics, as I was for many years. So I will be the only practicing Catholic in a group of 25 or so.

So I am praying for wisdom to just keep my mouth shut. I have never preached to my daughter but when we got into a minor spat,
entirely unrelated to Catholism, all the hurts of the past years just came out. Years ago when she told me " I hope you won’t be left behind" I let it slide. When she ridiculed me for praying to St. Anthony for HER lost camera, I let it slide. (BTW, the camera was found, just where I suggested she look).

I have now put the whole matter into the hands of the Lord and the Bleesed Mother.

I know Christ said that even families will be divided but Please, Dear God, don’t let it come to that.

 

[Joysong]

How alike we are, Indyann. I was a revert, too, after many years of doing my own thing WITHOUT God. When He gave me the grace, I came back 150%. Thanks to the Lord, we are able to be light and leaven to our families, even though we are a grand total of ONE … just loving them where they are now, praying them into the Kingdom. Meanwhile, I zip the lip until they are ready.

 

[Indyann]

How alike we are, Indyann. I was a revert, too, after many years of doing my own thing WITHOUT God. When He gave me the grace, I came back 150%. Thanks to the Lord, we are able to be light and leaven to our families, even though we are a grand total of ONE … just loving them where they are now, praying them into the Kingdom. Meanwhile, I zip the lip until they are ready.

God is so good, but the cross does get so heavy at times.

 

[4loveofJesus]

May God’s peace, love and mercy be with you all!

What I usually do when people do not want to listen or believe in the Truth taught by Our Good Lord Jesus, that He has entrusted to Catholic Church, because of the hardness of heart, ignorance, pride, selfishness or whatever reason it may be, I just bind them all when I pray, especially the rosary, chaplet of Divine Mercy and when going to holy mass. I know then that it is a done deal.

You have already planted a seed when you initially interacted with them as you bear witness to the Truth in charity, and then God waters it with your prayers and His graces and then God takes care of the rest.

We have to remember that sometimes it may take so many years for others to see and realize God’s Truth and for some it is sooner but whatever the circumstances may be, never give up praying for them and pray without ceasing. As the scripture says “The Lord hears the cry of the poor. Blessed be the Lord”. It took St. Monica 17 years praying for her son’s conversion and yet St. Augustine turned out to be one of the greatest saints of the Church.

I have been blessed by God to be able to witness such transformation in the person’s soul and I am eternally grateful for it but I do also realize some of my prayers may not be answered in my lifetime here on earth, but in God’s time, all according to His most Holy Will.

God bless and have a joyful Easter!

Blessed be Jesus and Mary!

 

[ncjohn]

How alike we are, Indyann. I was a revert, too, after many years of doing my own thing WITHOUT God. When He gave me the grace, I came back 150%. Thanks to the Lord, we are able to be light and leaven to our families, even though we are a grand total of ONE … just loving them where they are now, praying them into the Kingdom. Meanwhile, I zip the lip until they are ready.

I was going to do a couple separate posts on this beautiful exchange, but figured this was a good place to jump off from.

I too am a revert, having spent about 25 years away from the Church, but having had an incredibly blessed journey over the last few years, in which I have been doubly-blessed by sharing it with a wife whose journey parallels my own.

One of the things that has saved me in the types of situations you describe, both with family and friends, and on some occasions even here, is that God has revealed Himself to me enough times that I usually have enough inner peace to not be worried about the external stuff.

As a revert who was out in the cold myself for so long, I am able to have some patience with those who are struggling themselves, and often were alienated by some in our own Church, as I was. And having “lived by the law” for quite some time, for it was all I had to cling to before God parted the veil of His unending love, I can be patient with–and pray for–those for whom the veil has not yet parted. While I tend toward wishing for immediate results as we are prone to do, especially in this American culture of “immediate gratification”, I know from my own experience that it is all a journey. Some journeys are slower than others, but God will bring us along as we’re ready and able.

And I keep in mind that I’m not responsible for the harvest. My ego has to frequently be reminded that not all of this is up to me and that God also sends others to water the seeds. So discernment of which “battles” I’m to engage in is always critical for me. I do have to say though Carole, that there are times when we are indeed sent into “hostile” territory to witness to our inner peace with a gentle nudge towards repentance, much as Jonah was spit up on the shores of Nineveh, where he did not want to go.

Jesus told us to offer our peace as we entered a village, and to shake the dust from our sandals against that village if the peace was not accepted. But sometimes we have to remember not to forsake the village if there is even one righteous man.

Finally, I’ll say that while my tendency is to always speak as many arguments as I can find (I’m sure you all are shocked to hear that! ), I always try to fall back on the very, very wise words of my great Franciscan inspiration: “Preach the gospel always; use words when necessary.” It was from encountering people living the gospel with joy that I was drawn back to the Church, not from any brilliant doctrinal arguments. “Actions speak louder than words” is indeed the guide I try to use, believing that it was the sense of Jesus’s inner peace and the way he lived that that drew people to him. I can only trust then that my living that peace as he did will likewise draw others to him.

Blessings of renewal to you in this Easter season.

 

[Joysong]

Hello, ncjohn,

I guess this could be called “the revert section,” but what is so inspiring to me is that many reverts are generally touched very powerfully by God when they DO come back. It resembles a starving man at a banquet, who cannot get enough of this heavenly food, no matter what form it presents to their rapacious hunger for God. Yes, this does give us hope and patience that those for whom we pray will also be reverts some day.

And I keep in mind that I’m not responsible for the harvest. My ego has to frequently be reminded that not all of this is up to me and that God also sends others to water the seeds. So discernment of which “battles” I’m to engage in is always critical for me. I do have to say though Carole, that there are times when we are indeed sent into “hostile” territory to witness to our inner peace with a gentle nudge towards repentance, much as Jonah was spit up on the shores of Nineveh, where he did not want to go.

Oh-oh, now I have to think about this. (Just when I thought I had it all figured out! ) Your shaking the dust idea is a strong point, though. That special interior peace seems to be another matter to reconcile. When I think about Jonah’s unwillingness to go, the people accepted his message when he finally went to Nineveh. IOW, the other side was not hostile as he imagined they would be.

The similarity with Elias and Jonah is the same; i.e., God had sent them both, knowing the other side was “ready” for the message, and this too, is key for me … that God knew the field was ripe, so to speak, since He had prepared the way.

Do you think it is possible to sense spiritually in advance that the door is closed? Do we rush in anyway, thinking we are planting seeds? (I’m remembering the apostles being prevented from going to Asia) Should we wait, like Jonah and Elias, to be “sent?”

 

[mommyof4]

And I keep in mind that I’m not responsible for the harvest. My ego has to frequently be reminded that not all of this is up to me and that God also sends others to water the seeds. So discernment of which “battles” I’m to engage in is always critical for me. I do have to say though Carole, that there are times when we are indeed sent into “hostile” territory to witness to our inner peace with a gentle nudge towards repentance, much as Jonah was spit up on the shores of Nineveh, where he did not want to go.
.

Thank you so much for reminding me of this. Lately, I have been very anxious for some of my family members who have fallen away from the church, or who are very lukewarm in their faith. I have literally spend hours awake in bed at night worrying about them, and praying for their conversion. And yes, it does seem like I’m in hostile territory in my own home at times, too. After another sleepless, anxious filled night last night, I’m glad I found this thread. I’m going to continue to pray for all of them, but I have to realize that the Holy Spirit has a much bigger plan and is much wiser than I am.

 

[ncjohn]

Do you think it is possible to sense spiritually in advance that the door is closed? Do we rush in anyway, thinking we are planting seeds? (I’m remembering the apostles being prevented from going to Asia) Should we wait, like Jonah and Elias, to be “sent?”

That’s an interesting question, and the answer probably varies from person to person and from situation to situation. I know I have often wondered exactly how the old testament prophets came to their knowledge, and how sure they were that it was from God and not just their imaginations. I know of many people from whom I have heard “God told me…”, and in far too many cases–however sure they might have been–there was no question in my mind that God had told them no such thing as the message is too often blatantly hostile to the gospel.

For me, it is often trial and error, with probably far too many errors. I have some places where I definitely sense that I am sent, but then wonder when I get there if I was just imagining it since the level of hostility is so high. Often though, even in the face of that seeming hostility, I will be totally at peace in what I am saying and doing, even though some on the other side of the exchange might seem to be getting further agitated.

Realizing that emotions and even a sense of peace can be unreliable indicators of whether my words or actions are actually acccomplishing what I believe them to be, I try to always tread lightly so that at least I do not let anger destroy the message and I can walk away feeling I did the best I could and that I tried to do what was called for. I can even accept then that another’s agitation might be nothing more than resistance to the message that God is sending them.

If on the other hand I sense myself yielding to anger, or a need to humiliate the “opposition”, or even a need to “win” or be “right”, I’ll usually try to pull back and make an assumption that maybe it was not a battle that I was called for, but one that my ego is trying to take on for its own benefit. I know though that I’ve tried to force seeds to be planted on rock at times, and have been counterproductive to the message. But maybe that was just God’s gentle way of letting me learn by my mistakes so that I won’t do the same under more important circumstances some other time.

If there’s a fooproof way of knowing for sure, other than the testing of any calling we should do, then I sure would like to know about it. But for right now I’m going to have to go with Merton’s opinion that our desire to please God does in fact please Him, even if we’re way off the path in the brambles somewhere, and that as I listen more closely I’ll be less likely to find myself over there.

Peace,

 

[ncjohn]

Thank you so much for reminding me of this. Lately, I have been very anxious for some of my family members who have fallen away from the church, or who are very lukewarm in their faith. I have literally spend hours awake in bed at night worrying about them, and praying for their conversion. And yes, it does seem like I’m in hostile territory in my own home at times, too. After another sleepless, anxious filled night last night, I’m glad I found this thread. I’m going to continue to pray for all of them, but I have to realize that the Holy Spirit has a much bigger plan and is much wiser than I am.

Yes, the sleepless nights can be troublesome. I found out from my grandmother, twenty years after my grandfather had died, that he was very worried for me when I was in my twenties. Yet for whatever worries he might have had he never pressured me, but just showed me the peace he was at himself.

My father, on the other hand, was in my face constantly about it, and probably was more responsible than anyone for pushing me further away, opposite to what he was trying to do. So we can try to do the “right thing” but if the person isn’t ready for whatever reason, we can actually make things worse.

Praying and quietly modeling a sense of peace are often the only, and best, things we can do. And if I could be drawn back in after all the years I spent away, I have to give God the benefit of the doubt that He can and will draw others as the time comes in their own journeys. St Monica certainly spent more than a few years praying before the great St Augustine found his way to the Church.

We can scatter the seeds, but we don’t control the ground they fall on. The Divine Gardener is in charge of preparing the soil and sending the right fertilzer, though I have been known to supply more than my share of fertilizer…

Be not afraid; He goes before us always.

 

[mommyof4]

Thank you, John, for your kind words.

 

[Indyann]

Thank you, John, for your kind words.

Many wise words to ponder from all the posters.
I want to report that my venture into “hostile territory” yesterday went very well. The Holy Spirit provided me with spiritual duct tape for my moouth.

He also allowed me to be in another room, helping my 5y rold grandson look for his Ninja Turtle, when I heard from the “Bible Christians” "well it says in the bible-------.
Don’t know what they were talking about.

John, I too try to follow what St. Francis said, but when do you know when those words are necessary? Only when someone questions you? Only if they ridicule you? When they confront you? That’s the tricky part.

 

[ncjohn]

John, I too try to follow what St. Francis said, but when do you know when those words are necessary? Only when someone questions you? Only if they ridicule you? When they confront you? That’s the tricky part.

That is the tricky part indeed, and I’ve not found a good way to tell when they are “necessary” and when my ego just wants to let itself be heard.

Since I am not known as a man of few words, often falling into the “better to be quiet and be thought a fool…” category, I do try at least to keep what I say expressed in a loving manner. But that is tricky and hard all by itself sometimes.

I’ve been reminded on occasion that “just because you have opinion doesn’t mean you need to express it” but I’ve just not gotten very good yet at figuring out which time is which. And of course I never say in five words what I could use five hundred for.

As a rule though, I have usually found that if I attempt to say anything when being confronted or ridiculed in person, where I don’t have time to think things through first, I am likely to lapse into something less than charitable. Often times something like “you may have a point there; let me give it some thought” or “I’m going to hold off saying anything right now so I don’t say something in an offensive way” will keep it clear that you’re not condoning something while giving you a chance to compose a thoughtful response, or just walk away if ridicule is all they’re really up to.

I guess there are times when we find ourselves in the lion’s den when just letting ourselves go into prayer might be the best non-response we can give.

 

[Joysong]

Indyann,

I want to report that my venture into “hostile territory” yesterday went very well. The Holy Spirit provided me with spiritual duct tape for my moouth.

Good news! I did include you in my Mass intention on Easter, so I am grateful to be a prayer partner, even in a small way, of bringing you a joyful day and that anxiety took wing! God is so good!

I too try to follow what St. Francis said, but when do you know when those words are necessary? Only when someone questions you? Only if they ridicule you? When they confront you? That’s the tricky part.

Another St. Francis (de Sales) taught us to anticipate early in the morning our comings together with others, and prepare ahead of time what we are likely to encounter so that we can be ready with answers. Maybe you could mentally rehearse some replies for all of these situations. Perhaps a meek, but firm answer to offset a put-down and change the subject? Or a response that suggests you would absolutely love to discuss your faith whenever they are genuinely seeking to learn?

Jesus said in these touchy times, to trust the Holy Spirit to help you speak. Just turn the whole encounter over to Him in advance and ask Him to wrap you in His peace. Seems like He already did that yesterday! :dancing:

 

[Indyann]

Jesus said in these touchy times, to trust the Holy Spirit to help you speak. Just turn the whole encounter over to Him in advance and ask Him to wrap you in His peace. Seems like He already did that yesterday!

---

Yes, indeed, He did! I also learned some things from my DIL about Greek Orthodox Easter traditions. Her father immigrated here from Romania many years ago, but died about 12 years ago. Her Mom still holds to some of the traditions. The grandchildren told me how their “Nana” went to Trader Vic’s and bought special dye to color the eggs a very dark red to symbolize the blood of Jesus. I had never heard of that before.
They also told me about how they have a tradition of “trying not to get our eggs cracked”, as they touch their eggs to another’s with the Romanian greeting, for Christ has Risen! and then the other responds in Romanian “He is truly risen”.

So I had a wonderful day. Thank you for the prayers. And I will continue to remember you
also.

 

[puzzleannie]

Have you ever tried to share God’s truth with a hostile group of people who oppose beliefs that you hold sacred?

I wouldn’t go that far, but it is a tough row to hoe when your class is full of teenagers who don’t want to be there, challenge every statement just for the sake of argument and derailing the class, and who are rebelling against you, the Church and their parents. If apologetics with non-Catholics is getting you down I heartily recommend volunteering to teach a Confirmation class. You will really hone your skills and learn the details of your faith.

 

[Indyann]

I wouldn’t go that far, but it is a tough row to hoe when your class is full of teenagers who don’t want to be there, challenge every statement just for the sake of argument and derailing the class, and who are rebelling against you, the Church and their parents. If apologetics with non-Catholics is getting you down I heartily recommend volunteering to teach a Confirmation class. You will really hone your skills and learn the details of your faith.

Wow! This I do not think I could do. You must be blessed with a tremendous amount of patience. Patience, I know is is one of the virtues that I need to pray for. Thank you for doing this for our young “rebels”.

 

[Joysong]

ncjohn:

For me, it is often trial and error, with probably far too many errors. I have some places where I definitely sense that I am sent, but then wonder when I get there if I was just imagining it since the level of hostility is so high. Often though, even in the face of that seeming hostility, I will be totally at peace in what I am saying and doing, even though some on the other side of the exchange might seem to be getting further agitated.

Trial and error, for sure, John. There are those extra special times, though, when we just “know” … and the word does not return to us void, but falls like rain on a dusty heart. We can feel a certain unction as we speak, knowing it does not originate totally in ourselves, and we rejoice when the effects give us evidence that our prompting was true.

Would that this was always the case, but we live in battered tents, and often the way is not so smoothly laid out for us. I return again to the 23rd psalm, trusting that He will lead us as He promised, into those verdant pastures. Like you said with Merton, if we try to please Him, we in fact do so.