Which Ukrainian Orthodox Church?

[ConstantineTG]

How do I know which Ukrainian Orthodox Church a certain parish belongs to if its not explicitly states on their website?

 

[Hesychios]

How do I know which Ukrainian Orthodox Church a certain parish belongs to if its not explicitly states on their website?

You could ask the priest.

I don’t think that there are any which self identify as ‘Ukrainian’ in north America in the patriarchate of Moscow. The odds are very good that a Ukrainian parish you encounter is affiliated with (what we might say “under the omophorion” of ) the Ecumenical Patriarchate at Constantinople.

ACROD (for Ruthenian Orthodox) is also affiliated with the Ecumenical Patriarchate, but I don’t know if (actually I doubt) they have a presence in Canada.

 

[ConstantineTG]

You could ask the priest.

I don’t think that there are any which self identify as ‘Ukrainian’ in north America in the patriarchate of Moscow. The odds are very good that a Ukrainian parish you encounter is affiliated with (what we might say “under the omophorion” of ) the Ecumenical Patriarchate at Constantinople.

ACROD (for Ruthenian Orthodox) is also affiliated with the Ecumenical Patriarchate, but I don’t know if (actually I doubt) they have a presence in Canada.

There are two parishes in my area that are Ukrainian Orthodox. I’m just wondering which of the three Ukrainian Orthodox Churches they are a part of.

Would you know if the other two (KP and Autocephalous) have any presence outside of Ukraine?

 

[Hesychios]

There are two parishes in my area that are Ukrainian Orthodox. I’m just wondering which of the three Ukrainian Orthodox Churches they are a part of.

Would you know if the other two (KP and Autocephalous) have any presence outside of Ukraine?

All I can say is ‘I don’t think so’. Probably both parishes are part of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada, which is directly under the Ecumenical Patriarch.

I think I remember the KP trolling around looking to pick up some parishes. There was a schism of one parish in Illinois USA a couple of years ago, I don’t know what’s going on with them now.

But essentially the canonical Ukrainians in north America are all under the EP, as far as I know. The OCA also has ethnic Ukrainians (among others), but it’s origins are from the missions of the Russian Metropolia and these families have been around for many generations, they are not likely to speak the language.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Does the Vatican recognize the validity of Orthodox Churches not in communion with the EP?

 

[Hesychios]

Does the Vatican recognize the validity of Orthodox Churches not in communion with the EP?

I don’t know if any Orthodox can answer that. It is something a Roman Catholic familiar with Vatican policy would have to answer. Also (I don’t mean this derisively), the focus on ‘validity’ seems to be a Roman Catholic preoccupation.

There can be any number of reasons why churches are not in communion.

Breaking off communion alone does not necessarily invalidate a church’s sacraments. It could be because of a breach of discipline or some political dispute.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I don’t know if any Orthodox can answer that. It is something a Roman Catholic familiar with Vatican policy would have to answer. Also (I don’t mean this derisively), the focus on ‘validity’ seems to be a Roman Catholic preoccupation.

There can be any number of reasons why churches are not in communion.

Breaking off communion alone does not necessarily invalidate a church’s sacraments. It could be because of a breach of discipline or some political dispute.

But the Orthodox also question the validity of those not in communion with them, right? Many Orthodox still think Catholics, especially RC, are heretics and invalid. Also the Assyrian Church of the East and the Oriental Orthodox as well.

 

[Hesychios]

But the Orthodox also question the validity of those not in communion with them, right? Many Orthodox still think Catholics, especially RC, are heretics and invalid. Also the Assyrian Church of the East and the Oriental Orthodox as well.

Perhaps, but you are making a generalization. What many Orthodox may personally think is not necessarily the same as the reason we are not in communion, people have opinions.

The reason Orthodox are not in communion with Mormons is not the same as why Orthodox Ukrainians are not in communion with Orthodox Greeks.

Roman Catholics, Anglicans and Presbyterians are each unique.

 

[Hesychios]

But the Orthodox also question the validity of those not in communion with them, right? Many Orthodox still think Catholics, especially RC, are heretics and invalid. Also the Assyrian Church of the East and the Oriental Orthodox as well.

I think I need to add something here, which I ddi not elaborate on previously.

The reason Orthodox are not in communion with Lutheran, Anglicans and Roman Catholics is because we do not believe the same things, not that we think the sacramants and orders of those churches are invalid.

Conversely, just because we might (theoretically) believe or know that a church’s orders and sacraments valid is not an automatic reason to allow communion.

These are two separate things, and the one does not imply the other.

I think the problem here is that the Roman Catholic church has (perhaps not presently, but typically over the past) traditionally considered non-Catholics as having invalid sacraments. So when they learn of a church which will not allow Roman Catholics to partake, the knee-jerk reaction may be to assume that it must be due to the fact that church thinks RC sacraments are not valid. So then, there could be pressure to prove that the church really does have valid sacraments, but that misses the real point.

The reality is RC are not allowed to partake because they do not believe the same things Orthodox believe. The churchmen under the Pope either do not believe the same theology as the Orthodox, or are willing to commune with people (like the Pope himself) who do not believe what Orthodox believe.

Believing the same things and being in communion (being ‘as one’ in the same Orthodox church) is the only evidence we have that a bishop is a true bishop and his priests are true priests confecting the sacraments. This does not mean we know for a fact that they are not true priests and bishops, we simply have no direct evidence of that.

Put another way, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. We just don’t know, that is not a definite rejection or affirmation of anything Catholic.

The church has the right, indeed some might say the duty, to err on the side of caution in these matters, but I have seen economy exercised in the reception of converts, even when the converts themselves do not desire it. Exercising economy at the discretion of the bishop or the synod is also the church’s right.

What many Orthodox think has no bearing, any more than what many Catholics think.