Which Vatican 2 Document?

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Hey CAF!,

Which Vatican II Document would be a good one to discuss in a young adult’s faith discussion group? In my group’s last meeting about the upcoming Year of Faith, the council was a big talking point and we wanted to pick one of the documents to discuss.

(The topic of the council came up due to the whole trad/modernism/smoke of satan in the church thing). We’re all well formed Catholics so I think it’s reasonable for us to have one of these documents as a discussion topic.

I was leaning toward Gaudium et Spes, (based on the subtitle of the constitution).

thanks,
Phil
 
i don’t read latin
THE 9TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE CORONATION OF HIS HOLINESSHOMILY OF POPE PAUL VIThe solemnity of the Holy Apostles Peter and PaulThursday, June 29, 1972At sunset on Thursday, 29 June, solemnity of Ss Peter and Paul, in the presence of a considerable number of faithful from all over the world, the Pope Celebrates mass and the start of its 10th year of pontificate, as the successor of Saint Peter.With the Dean of the Sacred College, Cardinal Amleto Giovanni Cicognani and Subdean Cardinal Luigi Traglia are thirty Curia, Cardinals, and shepherds of dioceses, today present in Rome.Two gentlemen Cardinals per order, go in procession to the altar, the Holy Father.To the diplomatic corps accredited to the Holy See, with the substitute of the Secretariat of State, Archbishop Giovanni Benelli, and the Secretary of the Council for public affairs of the Church, Archbishop Agostino Casaroli.We give an account of the Homily of his Holiness.The Holy Father began claiming to have a very much alive thanks to those brothers and Sons, are present in the Basilica and to those who, far away, but they help to spiritually associate, sacred ritual, which, at the commemorative intent of the Apostle Peter, to whom is dedicated the St. Peter’s Basilica, privileged custodian of his grave and of his relics, and the Apostle Paul, he joined in the drawing and in Apostolic worship, joins another intention, to commemorate the anniversary of his election to succeed in the Pastoral Ministry of the fisherman Simon, son of Jonah, by Christ called Peter, and thus in the function of the Bishop of Rome, the pontiff of the universal Church and of visible and humble servant Vicar on Earth of Christ the Lord. Thank you very much for the presence of so many of the faithful shows love to Christ himself under the banner of his poor person, and assures their loyalty and therefore of indulgence towards him, not that of their regard for him consoling to help him with their prayers.THE CHURCH OF JESUS, THE CHURCH OF PETERPaul goes on to say that they do not want to speak, in his brief speech, he, San Pietro, for too long would and maybe unnecessary for those who already know the wonderful history; Neither himself, whose already too speak the press and radio, which also expresses his gratitude due. If you would rather speak of the Church, which at that time and from that Forum seems to appear before his eyes as expanse in its vast and complicated panorama, merely repeat a word of the same Apostle Peter, as called by him the immense Catholic community; He, in his first letter, collecting in the Canon of the writings of the New Testament. This beautiful message, addressed from Rome to the early Christians of Asia minor, on the part of Jewish origin, partly Pagan, as if to prove since then the universality of the Apostolic Ministry of Peter’s character has a considerably, i.e. exhortatory, but does not lack of doctrinal teachings, and the word that the Pope mentions is precisely that, to the extent that the recent Council made Treasury for one of his characteristic teachings. Paul invites you to listen as uttered by Saint Peter himself for those to whom at that time he addressed.After recalling the story of the exodus in which he tells how God spoke to Moses before him, said, “I’ll do this people, a people of priests and Royal”, Paul VI States that St. Peter took this word so exhilarating, so great and has applied to the new people of God, heir and continuator of Biblical Israel to form a new Israel, the Israel of Christ. Says St. Peter: Will priestly and kingly people who glorify the God of mercy, God of salvation.This word, observes the Holy Father has been misunderstood by some, as if the priesthood was an order only, and that is to be communicated to those who are incorporated into Christ’s Mystical Body, to those who are Christians. This is true with regard to what is referred to as common priesthood, but the Council tells us, and the tradition they had already taught, that there is another level of the priesthood, the ministerial priesthood which faculties, special prerogatives and exclusive.But what matters is the Royal priesthood and the Pope focuses on the meaning of this expression. Priesthood means ability to make worship to God, to communicate with him, offer him worthily something in his honor, to discuss with him, to look for it again in a new depth in a new discovery in a new love. This momentum of humanity to God, who has never quite achieved, nor enough known, is the who’s posted the only priest who is Christ, after the inauguration of the New Testament. Who is Christian is for this (cont)
 
But what matters is the Royal priesthood and the Pope focuses on the meaning of this expression. Priesthood means ability to make worship to God, to communicate with him, offer him worthily something in his honor, to discuss with him, to look for it again in a new depth in a new discovery in a new love. This momentum of humanity to God, who has never quite achieved, nor enough known, is the who’s posted the only priest who is Christ, after the inauguration of the New Testament. Who is Christian is for that very reason with this quality of this prerogative to speak unto the Lord in real terms, as the son to father.THE INTERVIEW WITH GOD«Audemus dicere: we can really celebrate before the Lord, a ritual, a liturgy of common prayer, sanctification of secular life that distinguishes the Christian who is not Christian. This population is distinct, though confused in the middle of the great tide of humanity. Has its own distinction, his unmistakable characteristic. Sao Paulo is said «segregatus», detached, separate from the rest of humanity just because invested of prerogatives and functions that don’t have those who do not possess the extreme luck and excellence to be limbs of Christ.Paul VI added, so that the faithful, who are called to the sonship of God, to the participation of the mystical body of Christ, and are animated by the Holy Spirit, and the Temple of the presence of God, must engage in this dialogue, this conversation, this conversation with God in religion, in liturgical worship, in private worship, and to extend the meaning of Holiness also profane actions. “Whether you eat or drink-Saint Paul says-do it for the glory of God.” And it says several times in his letters, how to claim the Christian the ability to imbue something new, to illuminate, to sanctify also temporal things external, transient, profane.We are invited to give Christian people, which is called the Church, a way to truly sacred. And we feel we have to contain the wave of profanity, demystification, of secularization that mounts and does confuse and break up the religious sense in the secret of the heart, in real life or even into affirmations of outer life. We tend today to assert that there is no need to distinguish a man from another, that there is nothing that can make this distinction. Indeed, they tend to return to man its authenticity, her being like everyone else. But the Church, St. Peter 's, and today by invoking the Christian people to self-consciousness, tell him that the people elected, distinguished, ’ bought ’ by Christ, a people who must have a particular relationship with God, a God with priesthood. This sacralisation of life should not be cancelled, expelled from costume and everyday reality that should no longer appear.HOLINESS OF THE CHRISTIAN PEOPLEWe lost, points out Paul VI, the religious habit, and many others outward manifestations of religious life. On this there is so much to discuss and so much to give, but you have to keep the concept, and the concept even some signs of Holiness of the Christian people, of those that are incorporated into Christ, the Supreme and eternal priest.Today certain sociological currents tend to study humanity apart from this contact with God. St. Peter’s sociology, sociology of the Church, to study men highlights the sacral aspect, this conversation with the ineffable, with God, with the divine world. We must state this in the study of all human differentiations. How heterogeneous is humankind, we must not forget this basic unit that the Lord gives us when we give grace: we’re all brothers in Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, or barbarian, Scythian, nor neither man nor woman. We are all one in Christ. We are all sanctified, we all participate in this degree of supernatural elevation that Christ has given us. St Peter’s ce remembers him: it is the sociology of the Church that we must not validate nor forget.CARES AND AFFECTION FOR THE WEAK AND DISORIENTEDPaul VI you ask, then, if the Church today you can compare with tranquility with words that Peter has bequeathed, offering in meditation. "We look back at this time with great charity-the Holy Father-all our brothers who leave us, many who are fugitives and forget, to many who perhaps never arrived even to have awareness of Christian vocation, although they received baptism. (cont)
 
Hey CAF!,

Which Vatican II Document would be a good one to discuss in a young adult’s faith discussion group? In my group’s last meeting about the upcoming Year of Faith, the council was a big talking point and we wanted to pick one of the documents to discuss.

(The topic of the council came up due to the whole trad/modernism/smoke of satan in the church thing). We’re all well formed Catholics so I think it’s reasonable for us to have one of these documents as a discussion topic.

I was leaning toward Gaudium et Spes, (based on the subtitle of the constitution).

thanks,
Phil
Gaudium et Spes is a good one. The Church in the Modern World – you can’t get more relevant than that. The second half in particular opens up the discussion to lots of particular issues we are facing.

It’s one of the longer ones, though. I don’t know what your time frame is. If it were me, I wouldn’t want to tackle the whole document in one session. I’d be afraid no one would want to read it. If you can divide it into manageable portions and discuss it over the course of multiple sessions over the course of weeks and months, then that would be good.
 
CARES AND AFFECTION FOR THE WEAK AND DISORIENTEDPaul VI you ask, then, if the Church today you can compare with tranquility with words that Peter has bequeathed, offering in meditation. "We look back at this time with great charity-the Holy Father-all our brothers who leave us, many who are fugitives and forget, to many who perhaps never arrived even to have awareness of Christian vocation, although they received baptism. As we really stretch your hands towards them, and tell them that the heart is always open, the door is easy, and as we make them partakers of great, ineffable happiness Fortune our, that of being in communication with God, not detract from temporal vision and realism of outer world!».Perhaps this being in communication with God, obliges us to sacrifice, sacrifices, but while deprives us of something multiplies his gifts. Yes, requires sacrifices but we makes sovrabbondare of other riches. We are not poor, we are rich because we have the Lord’s wealth. «Well-adds Pope-we would like to tell these brothers, of which we hear almost ripping into the bowels of our priestly soul, than we are, as always, more now and we love them and pray for them and how we try with this effort that chases them, around them, to make up for the interruption that themselves to our communion with Christ.Referring to the situation of the Church today, the Holy Father says that you have the feeling that ’ from some fissure has entered the smoke of Satan in the Temple of God. " There is doubt, uncertainty, anxiety, problems, dissatisfaction, confrontation. No more trust of the Church; We trust the first Prophet layman who comes to us from some newspaper or from some social movement for chasing after it and ask him if he has the formula of real life. And not feel they already us masters and masters. He joined the doubt in our consciences, and entered for Windows which should be open to the light. By science, which is designed to give us the truth that doesn’t detach from God but they do try even more and celebrate with greater intensity, however, came criticism, came the doubt. Scientists are those who more and more painfully contemplatively curving the opposite. And end up teaching: «I do not know, do not know, we cannot know. " The school gym becomes confusing and sometimes absurd contradictions. Celebrated advancement to then demolish with the strangest revolutions and more radical, to deny everything that is conquered, primitive to return after so much praised the progress of the modern world.Also in the Church is this state of uncertainty. It was believed that after the Council would come a sunny day in the history of the Church. Came up with a day of clouds, storms, darkness, of research, of uncertainty. Preach ecumenism and increasingly include us from others. Let’s dig into the depths rather than fill them.FOR A «CREED» LIFE AND REDEEMERLike this? The Pope hopes to present his thought: that there has been an adverse power. His name is the devil, this mysterious being which refers also in the letter of St. Peter 's. Many times, on the other hand, in the Gospel, Christ’s own lips, returns the mention of this enemy of men. We believe-the Holy Father-something preternatural came into the world in order to disturb, to suppress the fruits of the Ecumenical Council and of ensuring that the Church prorompesse in the anthem of joy that he got fully self consciousness. Precisely for this reason we would like to be able, more than ever, in this moment, to exercise the function assigned by God to Peter, to confirm in the faith our brothers. We would like to inform you that the charism of the certainty that the Lord gives to one who is unworthy to this earth. " Faith gives us the certainty and security, when it is based on the word of God accepted and found consenting with our very own reason and with our own human soul. He that believeth with simplicity, humility, feels to be on the right track, they have an inner witness who comforted in difficult conquest of truth.The Lord concludes the Pope, he shows himself the light and truth to those who will accept him in his word, and his word is no longer an obstacle to truth and the path to be but a step on which we can climb and really be conquerors of the Lord that you view through the path of faith, this advance and guarantee of ultimate vision. (cont)
 
The Lord concludes the Pope, he shows himself the light and truth to those who will accept him in his word, and his word is no longer an obstacle to truth and the path to be but a step on which we can climb and really be conquerors of the Lord that you view through the path of faith, this advance and guarantee of ultimate vision.In emphasizing another aspect of contemporary humanity, Pope Paul VI reminds us of the existence of a multitude of souls humble, simple, pure, strong, straight, following the invitation of Saint Peter to be “fortes in fide”. And we–so He-that this force of faith, this confidence, this peace trionfasse on all obstacles. The Pope invites Catholics to finally Act humble and sincere faith, such psychological effort to find in their underwear the momentum towards a conscious act of accession: "Lord, I believe in your Word, I believe in your revelation, I believe in people who have given me as a witness and guarantor of this thy revelation to hear and try, with the strength of faiththe advance of the bliss of life that with faith we promise. " End

Sorry about the long post…couldn’t paste a link and keep the translation current.:o
 
The other document that comes to mind is Lumen Gentium. I love the idea of the universal call to holiness.
 
Gaudium et Spes would be a good topic. Sacrosanctum Concilium might be interesting. It is the Constitution of the Sacred Liturgy. It is important to note that written in reference to the Traditional Latin Mass.
 
It seems Lumen Gentium is the document accused of letting people take the church out of a prominent spot in their lives.
 
It seems Lumen Gentium is the document accused of letting people take the church out of a prominent spot in their lives.
But of course “accused” doesn’t make LG guilty. 😉

That’s just because of LG 8 which says the Church of Christs “subsists in” the Catholic Church. The controversy over that little phrase has been so great that it warrants its own Wikipedia article. 😛

Discussing what this phrase actually means could be a session unto itself. Of course, it might just start a fight. 😉
 
A fight is not something I want to start lol. You’re right. I want to have a fruitful discussion but not have it get out of hand. That could likely be accomplished with other documents from the counceil.
 
The Lord concludes the Pope, he shows himself the light and truth to those who will accept him in his word, and his word is no longer an obstacle to truth and the path to be but a step on which we can climb and really be conquerors of the Lord that you view through the path of faith, this advance and guarantee of ultimate vision.In emphasizing another aspect of contemporary humanity, Pope Paul VI reminds us of the existence of a multitude of souls humble, simple, pure, strong, straight, following the invitation of Saint Peter to be “fortes in fide”. And we–so He-that this force of faith, this confidence, this peace trionfasse on all obstacles. The Pope invites Catholics to finally Act humble and sincere faith, such psychological effort to find in their underwear the momentum towards a conscious act of accession: "Lord, I believe in your Word, I believe in your revelation, I believe in people who have given me as a witness and guarantor of this thy revelation to hear and try, with the strength of faiththe advance of the bliss of life that with faith we promise. " End

Sorry about the long post…couldn’t paste a link and keep the translation current.:o
Code:
 Thanks  Samson01,  Pope Paul VI was really a great Pope.  God has blessed His People with many great Popes.   I hope everyone reads this sermon and take it to heart.
May the Peace of Jesus Christ Be with You Always,
BP
 
slowly reading through Lumen Gentium, ~1 month before the meeting to discuss something… and I like the content of Chapter 2 of LG. Need to finish reading the document but I think that’s real contender.
 
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