Whihc is worse: schism or heresy?

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As we all know, there are a myriad of dangers which the bride of Christ, the holy Catholic Church, now faces on a more or less daily basis. These include the faithful straying from or her teachings, persecution by members of other religions, and harassment from atheistic regimes; but all of this you know, my brethren. We here about it in the news all the time, especially here on CAF.

However, there are 2 which I believe are not talked about enough, that form a more… insideous threat to Jesus’s flock.They are namely, schism and heresy, and are among the favorite tools of Satan to ensnare us unwitting sinners. These are the vices which gave us the Cathars, the Puritans, and other scourges. There is no doubt in my mind that they pose great threats to the faith, the only question is, which threat is greater? To me, people could leave the church and found the cult of the Almighty Orange Marshmallow , and I would not care at all; thus, I view heresy as the more deadly of the 2 vices, because in schism the errors taught are cut off from the rest of the otherwise healthy church allows the error to spread and infect more souls.
Whether you agree or disagree, please explain your thoughts on these vices below.
 
Heresy, by a long margin.

If we look at many of the problems that plague today’s world, they are the direct result of heresy.

Islamic terrorism? Islam is a Christian heresy, according to Hilaire Belloc.

Pro-abortion, pro-LGBTQ agenda Christianity? The heresy of the “social gospel” and “charity without truth”.

The disintegration of the Church and the rejection of the Sacraments? The heresies of Luther and Calvin.

Indifferentism, universalism, and wishy-washy “feelings” instead of sound doctrine within the Church? The heresy of Modernism.

Groups claiming to be more “Catholic” than the Church and attacking it more viciously than even Jack Chick? A revival of the heresies of Donatism and Jansenism.

Bogus “seers” claiming that their visions and delusions outrank Church teaching? A revival of the heresy of Montanism.

Schism is a sin against charity, but heretics sin against both charity and Truth.
 
I feel like it’s kind of a loaded question - outside of the Orthodox, schism is almost never found without a prior heresy.
 
Heresy is. The beef that I have with Shi’a religiosity is not so much that that they have weird beliefs about the companions of Allah’s messenger-- rather, it is their practice of taking their twelve imams as demigods. They pray to these twelve imams. The Qur’an knows nothing of praying to a human being. It is heresy to believe that any of the twelve imams can hear you in prayer, let alone answer that prayer.

Praying to something other than Allah is heretical, so that’s the biggest problem with Shiism. It’s a system of heresy.
 
DeusExMachina said:
…please explain your thoughts on these vices below.
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You’re very right in calling them vices: heresy is a vice against faith, and schism is a vice contrary to charity.

Charity, as St. Thomas says, is the greatest of the theological virtues, since it approaches its object, God, even closer than either faith or hope, and since we will not have need for faith or hope in heaven, but we will still have charity infused into our souls.

But nonetheless, charity has two objects: God as the primary object and neighbor as the secondary. And so St. Thomas also says that unbelief is worse than schism, since it is a sin directly against God, whereas schism is an offense against ecclesiastical authority and unity, which is lesser than God and Divine Truth.
 
Schism by a mile. Heresy at its core is just a wrong view/opinion. Schism is dividing the body of Christ.
 
Schism is a mass heresy. A large group believes the same false doctrine (the heresy) and they break away as a group (the schism). So it’s more a question of scale than a difference in actions.

Schism is worse.
 
Padres1969 said:
Schism by a mile. Heresy at its core is just a wrong view/opinion. Schism is dividing the body of Christ.
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Its funny you should say that. After all, Anglicanism was born from a schism:shrug:
 
DeusExMachina said:
Its funny you should say that. After all, Anglicanism was born from a schism:shrug:
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If you consider it such. However even if you consider its creation a schism, no one alive today who is Anglican is a Schismatic from a Catholic perspective. Heretic maybe.
 
DeusExMachina said:
As we all know, there are a myriad of dangers which the bride of Christ, the holy Catholic Church, now faces on a more or less daily basis. These include the faithful straying from or her teachings, persecution by members of other religions, and harassment from atheistic regimes; but all of this you know, my brethren. We here about it in the news all the time, especially here on CAF.

However, there are 2 which I believe are not talked about enough, that form a more… insideous threat to Jesus’s flock.They are namely, schism and heresy, and are among the favorite tools of Satan to ensnare us unwitting sinners. These are the vices which gave us the Cathars, the Puritans, and other scourges. There is no doubt in my mind that they pose great threats to the faith, the only question is, which threat is greater? To me, people could leave the church and found the cult of the Almighty Orange Marshmallow , and I would not care at all; thus, I view heresy as the more deadly of the 2 vices, because in schism the errors taught are cut off from the rest of the otherwise healthy church allows the error to spread and infect more souls.
Whether you agree or disagree, please explain your thoughts on these vices below.
Click to expand...
Out of interest, can you give an example of an “atheistic regime,” and also an example of “harassment” from one?
 
Many schisms involve heresy, but NOT all of them. (Consider the fact that Henry VIII died thinking he was a good Catholic.) Inasmuch as a schism depends on a heresy, that schism is worse than a simple heresy. But a schism without a heresy is not as bad as a heresy without a schism.

Heresy is a sin against God directly.

Schism is a sin against the Holy Father and his authority.

Sins are primarily measured on the good which is offended. God is better than the pope.

This is the teaching of St. Thomas, as LiamQ explained.
 
wanstronian said:
Out of interest, can you give an example of an “atheistic regime,” and also an example of “harassment” from one?
Click to expand...
The communist regimes of the Soviet Union killed at least 40,000 Orthodox priests, 28 bishops, and over 12** million** Christian laymen. Out of more than 50,000 churches in existence before the revolution, only 7000 remained when communism fell in 1991. All this was done in the name of atheism.
Is THAT persecution enough for you?
 
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