Who is Saved?

[Ron_Conte]

My view: Everyone who loves their neighbor is in the state of grace and will have eternal life, if they die in that state. Persons who are non-Catholic Christians, non-Christian believers, and unbelievers – Protestants, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, other believers, agnostics, atheists, etc. – can all be saved, without converting, if they love their neighbor. Persons who commit objective mortal sin in their lives, without repentance can be saved, if they are in good conscience, through invincible ignorance, and if they are in the state of grace by loving their neighbor. This includes the divorced and remarried, people who are cohabitating, LGBT persons, same-sex married couples, etc. As long as they love their neighbor, they are in the state of grace. Some acts of objective mortal sin are not also actual mortal sin.

What if a person who loves their neighbor commits an actual mortal sin? Then they lose the state of grace and no longer love their neighbor. But they can return to the state of grace by an act of perfect contrition, such as sorrow for their sins out of love of neighbor. Or they can return to the state of grace by an act of implicit perfect contrition, that is to say, by an act of love of neighbor. (Or they can go to Confession, if they are Catholic or Orthodox, with at least imperfect contrition.)

Everyone who loves their neighbor is in the state of grace. Everyone who loves their neighbor also loves God, at least implicitly. So an atheist, who, by a sincere but mistaken conscience, thinks that God does not exist, still loves God implicitly, if and only if he loves his neighbor.



The only people who go to Hell are persons who either never loved their neighbor, or who once loved their neighbor, but abandoned that love by unrepented actual mortal sin and never returned to it. Love and unrepented actual mortal sin are incompatible.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Jesus actually said most people are going to hell.

Matthew 7:13-14Amplified Bible (AMP)

The Narrow and Wide Gates

13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad and easy to travel is the path that leads the way to destruction and eternal loss, and there are many who enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow and difficult to travel is the path that leads the way to [everlasting] life, and there are few who find it.

His words, there…and those are the words that matter…

 

[Brassring]

My view: Everyone who loves their neighbor is in the state of grace and will have eternal life, if they die in that state. Persons who are non-Catholic Christians, non-Christian believers, and unbelievers – Protestants, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, other believers, agnostics, atheists, etc. – can all be saved, without converting, if they love their neighbor. Persons who commit objective mortal sin in their lives, without repentance can be saved, if they are in good conscience, through invincible ignorance, and if they are in the state of grace by loving their neighbor. This includes the divorced and remarried, people who are cohabitating, LGBT persons, same-sex married couples, etc. As long as they love their neighbor, they are in the state of grace. Some acts of objective mortal sin are not also actual mortal sin.

What if a person who loves their neighbor commits an actual mortal sin? Then they lose the state of grace and no longer love their neighbor. But they can return to the state of grace by an act of perfect contrition, such as sorrow for their sins out of love of neighbor. Or they can return to the state of grace by an act of implicit perfect contrition, that is to say, by an act of love of neighbor. (Or they can go to Confession, if they are Catholic or Orthodox, with at least imperfect contrition.)

Everyone who loves their neighbor is in the state of grace. Everyone who loves their neighbor also loves God, at least implicitly. So an atheist, who, by a sincere but mistaken conscience, thinks that God does not exist, still loves God implicitly, if and only if he loves his neighbor.



The only people who go to Hell are persons who either never loved their neighbor, or who once loved their neighbor, but abandoned that love by unrepented actual mortal sin and never returned to it. Love and unrepented actual mortal sin are incompatible.

On this subject, I can know nothing but what our Lord’s Church teaches me. Love God. Love my neighbor. Love my enemies. Partake of the sacraments. Live my obligations to my vocations as fully as I can, with God’s help. Practice the spiritual and corporal works of mercy at every possible opportunity.

Above all, trust God’s love and mercy.

 

[meltzerboy]

My view: Everyone who loves their neighbor is in the state of grace and will have eternal life, if they die in that state. Persons who are non-Catholic Christians, non-Christian believers, and unbelievers – Protestants, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, other believers, agnostics, atheists, etc. – can all be saved, without converting, if they love their neighbor. Persons who commit objective mortal sin in their lives, without repentance can be saved, if they are in good conscience, through invincible ignorance, and if they are in the state of grace by loving their neighbor. This includes the divorced and remarried, people who are cohabitating, LGBT persons, same-sex married couples, etc. As long as they love their neighbor, they are in the state of grace. Some acts of objective mortal sin are not also actual mortal sin.

What if a person who loves their neighbor commits an actual mortal sin? Then they lose the state of grace and no longer love their neighbor. But they can return to the state of grace by an act of perfect contrition, such as sorrow for their sins out of love of neighbor. Or they can return to the state of grace by an act of implicit perfect contrition, that is to say, by an act of love of neighbor. (Or they can go to Confession, if they are Catholic or Orthodox, with at least imperfect contrition.)

Everyone who loves their neighbor is in the state of grace. Everyone who loves their neighbor also loves God, at least implicitly. So an atheist, who, by a sincere but mistaken conscience, thinks that God does not exist, still loves God implicitly, if and only if he loves his neighbor.



The only people who go to Hell are persons who either never loved their neighbor, or who once loved their neighbor, but abandoned that love by unrepented actual mortal sin and never returned to it. Love and unrepented actual mortal sin are incompatible.

I don’t think your position is entirely in harmony with Church teaching; but I do agree with you. I have only one qualification. In my view, not the Church’s viewpoint for sure and perhaps not Judaism’s view either, there are certain heinous acts of sinfulness such as ruthless murder, particularly on a large scale (I’m thinking of Hitler, Stalin, and their ilk), that I don’t believe even G-d, for all His mercy, can fully forgive although the person repents of their sin. Whether that person goes to Hell for all eternity is not for me to say, but if anyone is in Hell, it would, to my thinking, surely be someone who is responsible for the slaughter of millions of innocent people.

 

[Ron_Conte]

It is contrary to the teaching of the Church on forgiveness to say that any sin or set of sins, however grave or heinous, cannot or will not be forgiven by God, if the person repents.

The saying of Jesus concerning “few” who find the narrow path to salvation and “few” are chosen must be interpreted in the light of other Gospel and magisterial teachings. It is too simplistic to conclude that most souls go to Hell and few go to Heaven.

[John]
{14:2} In my Father’s house, there are many dwelling places. If there were not, I would have told you. For I go to prepare a place for you.

I would interpret the “few” as meaning that few persons live the fullness of the Gospel message well, but many are saved as God is forgiving. Few persons go directly to Heaven when they die. But very many persons are saved by way of Purgatory.

The Magisterium has not yet decided the question of few versus many. Perhaps Pope Francis will teach on this subject.

 

[Church_Militant]

Ron, you have a near universalist position that is not supported by either the Bible or Catholic teaching.

Start here with CCC 1439 and following. It’s very concise and unambiguous.

So also are the words of Christ Himself in Matthew 7.
[13] "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.
[14] For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
[15] "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
[16] You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles?
[17] So, every sound tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears evil fruit.
[18] A sound tree cannot bear evil fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
[19] Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
[20] Thus you will know them by their fruits.
[21] "Not every one who says to me, Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. [22] On that day many will say to me, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
[23] And then will I declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’

 

[Church_Militant]

It is contrary to the teaching of the Church on forgiveness to say that any sin or set of sins, however grave or heinous, cannot or will not be forgiven by God, if the person repents

.Note the bolded part…

The saying of Jesus concerning “few” who find the narrow path to salvation and “few” are chosen must be interpreted in the light of other Gospel and magisterial teachings. It is too simplistic to conclude that most souls go to Hell and few go to Heaven.

That sir, is completely untrue.

[John]
{14:2} In my Father’s house, there are many dwelling places. If there were not, I would have told you. For I go to prepare a place for you.

Totally irrelevant to this topic and out of context, nor does it in any way support your erroneous position.

I would interpret the “few” as meaning that few persons live the fullness of the Gospel message well, but many are saved as God is forgiving. Few persons go directly to Heaven when they die. But very many persons are saved by way of Purgatory.

The Magisterium has not yet decided the question of few versus many. Perhaps Pope Francis will teach on this subject.

Many is just that, but your position as stated in your thread opening expresses something that neither the Bible nor the Church teaches, and since you have no magisterial authority to interpret anything, it fails as a Catholic teaching.