Who is the serpent in Genesis if Lucifer had not yet rebelled and fallen?

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Yes, I understand. After reading all of Genesis and Job again yesterday then it is clear that Lucifer’s fall was well before the time of Job, which therefor puts Genesis in its proper perspective, naturally.

Note: Stay away from Discovery Channel theology! 😃
(I say that because I remember watching a show (“Mysteries of the Bible” I think it was) talking about how Lucifer/Satan was still in God’s service in the time of Job. Maybe that was the History Channel. Regardless, they are misinformed.)

Thank you.
 
Nigel7 said:
Yes, I understand. After reading all of Genesis and Job again yesterday then it is clear that Lucifer’s fall was well before the time of Job, which therefor puts Genesis in its proper perspective, naturally.

Note: Stay away from Discovery Channel theology! 😃
(I say that because I remember watching a show (“Mysteries of the Bible” I think it was) talking about how Lucifer/Satan was still in God’s service in the time of Job. Maybe that was the History Channel. Regardless, they are misinformed.)

Thank you.
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…I don’t think is so much misinformed as conciously anti-Catholic… have you noticed how they (discovery/ng/history…) always come up with some “latest” on the Bible, Jesus, Christianity… their expositions always places doubt on anything supernatural, relinquishes God (Triune) and Sacred Scriptures to myth, and muzzles the “Christian” scholars which they offer as a sign of impartial representation… interestingly enough their docu-hearsays have the built-in structure of that famous swiss cheese! :whistle:

…I suspect that the producers and promoters of these info channels work hand in hand–have you noticed how those programs keep popping up inspite of their errors?

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Dolezal said:
That’s not possible. Time is change, therefore any actualization of a state of affairs is subject to time.
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On earth, but Heaven can have it’s own set of natural laws. The laws of gravity are different in Heaven for example. 🙂 We won’t age in Heaven, won’t need to sleep or eat in Heaven. Heaven is a whole different world with a whole different set of rules. 🙂 The earth is bound by time but Heaven isn’t.
 
Nigel7 said:
The serpent in Genesis pre-dates the fall of Lucifer/Satan.
So who is the serpent in Genesis that is tempting Adam and Eve if at this point there was not yet a “Satan” since Lucifer had not yet fallen and become the Devil/father of lies??
I mean, in Job then Lucifer is still working for God, right? In the first chapter of Job he had not yet been cast out of Heaven for rebelling against God.
So who is the serpent in Genesis telling humans to rebel against God? Some sort of entity of that pre-existing evil which existed before all of creation? Commentary that I read says that it was Satan, though Lucifer had not yet fallen.
???

I’ve been reading a lot of OT scripture today (Genesis and Job) for a school assignment, and now this question pops up. The answer may be obvious, but this question has popped up as a stumbling block in my research tonight.

Thanks for your feedback.
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First, you should probably explain why you assume that Satan had not yet fallen by the time of Adam and why you make the assumption that he had also not fallen by the time of Job?
 
Skye_Ariel said:
On earth, but Heaven can have it’s own set of natural laws. The laws of gravity are different in Heaven for example. 🙂 We won’t age in Heaven, won’t need to sleep or eat in Heaven. Heaven is a whole different world with a whole different set of rules. 🙂 The earth is bound by time but Heaven isn’t.
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Heaven is spiritual. We’ll just have to agree to disagree about time. There is certainly a sense of time in the spiritual realm, heaven hell and purgatory. Maybe not minutes, seconds and months but certainly before and after, which is a sense of time, a sense of successive states. Right now all in heaven await the resurrection of their bodies which hasn’t happened yet but will in the future. So there is a sense of future in heaven. The same for those awaiting release from purgatory, they await a future in heaven. To be outside of time is to be future-less and past-less. Granted it is a reality like we can’t imagine fully, but we can deduce a few things. Again only God has no beginning or end but is truly and solely eternal. We will be drawn very close to the eternal nature of God in heaven, maybe to the degree to which it may seem we were always at that point of closeness, but that will be his eternal nature permeating ours and not necessarily us becoming eternal.

Listen to me,… going on like I’ve been there. It’s a mystery for sure.

Respectfully,
Peterk
 
PeterK said:
Heaven is spiritual. We’ll just have to agree to disagree about time. There is certainly a sense of time in the spiritual realm, heaven hell and purgatory. Maybe not minutes, seconds and months but certainly before and after, which is a sense of time, a sense of successive states. Right now all in heaven await the resurrection of their bodies which hasn’t happened yet but will in the future. So there is a sense of future in heaven. The same for those awaiting release from purgatory, they await a future in heaven. To be outside of time is to be future-less and past-less. Granted it is a reality like we can’t imagine fully, but we can deduce a few things. Again only God has no beginning or end but is truly and solely eternal. We will be drawn very close to the eternal nature of God in heaven, maybe to the degree to which it may seem we were always at that point of closeness, but that will be his eternal nature permeating ours and not necessarily us becoming eternal.

Listen to me,… going on like I’ve been there. It’s a mystery for sure.

Respectfully,
Peterk
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Oh okay I can agree with that.👍 I do agree there will be some type of time, like before and after, just not time like how it passes here on earth. Like 1 day in heaven can be hundreds of years for us. That type of thing. The measurement of time will be totally different. I don’t think there will be morning and night and 24hrs in a day like on earth. So in that sense the events of heaven were outside of normal earth time.
 
PeterK said:
Heaven is spiritual. We’ll just have to agree to disagree about time. There is certainly a sense of time in the spiritual realm, heaven hell and purgatory. Maybe not minutes, seconds and months but certainly before and after, which is a sense of time, a sense of successive states. Right now all in heaven await the resurrection of their bodies which hasn’t happened yet but will in the future. So there is a sense of future in heaven. The same for those awaiting release from purgatory, they await a future in heaven. To be outside of time is to be future-less and past-less. Granted it is a reality like we can’t imagine fully, but we can deduce a few things. Again only God has no beginning or end but is truly and solely eternal. We will be drawn very close to the eternal nature of God in heaven, maybe to the degree to which it may seem we were always at that point of closeness, but that will be his eternal nature permeating ours and not necessarily us becoming eternal.

Listen to me,… going on like I’ve been there. It’s a mystery for sure.

Respectfully,
Peterk
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PeterK, I concur… only God is Eternal–hence His Omnipresence (Past, Present, Future = I AM–or as some have stated, I BE)… once we are claimed (Parousia) we will be as He is (not billions of gods but of His Essence) so we will be enjoined to God’s Omnipresence and Omnipotense (it is what Lucifer feared: “…you will be as He is…”).

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Skye_Ariel said:
Oh okay I can agree with that.👍 I do agree there will be some type of time, like before and after, just not time like how it passes here on earth. Like 1 day in heaven can be hundreds of years for us. That type of thing. The measurement of time will be totally different. I don’t think there will be morning and night and 24hrs in a day like on earth. So in that sense the events of heaven were outside of normal earth time.
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…correct! …that’s why Scriptures tells us that God so Loved the world that, in the fullness of time, He Sent His Only Begotten Son (a little poetic lisence) so that we might Live!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Dolezal said:
That’s not possible. Time is change, therefore any actualization of a state of affairs is subject to time.
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Time is obviously present in the sense of a moment before the decision of the angels and after their rebellion, but this does not equate to our understanding of time in the physical world. Beyond the fact that there is a before and after, we have no idea what time is to the spiritual beings, and they are likely not bound by the same time as ours. There is no way of knowing. At least, that’s how I understand it.
 
*Genesis 3.15, “And I will put enmity between [the serpent] and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.”

Romans 16.20, “The God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly.”

Revelation 12.9, “the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world.”

Revelation 20.2, “He laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan…that he should deceive the nations no more.”*
 
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