Who to believe?

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Dew

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I have asked many people if I am a heretic and I get different answers depending on who I ask. I have asked a canon lawyer in private practice, a religious brother who is one of my spiritual directors, several father confessors, professors of theology, online “experts”, and tried to research it myself. Is it best to just leave my bishop alone or should I bother him and press him to tell me if i am a heretic or not? I don’t know whose opinion to give the most weight to? Therefore, I feel safe I am not a heretic since all the experts disagree. Part of me is curious of what my bishop will say and wants the issue resolved so I can help others in my position and tell them what a Roman Catholic bishop told me. But I suspect even bishops will disagree depending on who your bishop is. In fact, I am pretty sure of this as I have seen priests and theologians teaching publicly things that have been declared heresy and their bishop does not stop them. While other theologians and priests who have taught much less controversial things get in trouble from their bishop. One can just move to a diocese where the bishop agrees with you. I am not rich ebough to get the Pope to tell me if I am a heretic. What should I do? Just accept that experts cannot ahree if I am a heretic and leave it there? Or press my bishop to tell me if I am a heretic? And if he thinks I am, then move to a different Diocese?
 
Who to believe? The answer is me, one random anonymous guy on the internet.

I think the following passage gets to the heart of the matter:
Dew said:
a religious brother who is one of my spiritual directors
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How many spiritual directors does one need? One. Pick one spiritual director and do what he or she tells you.
 
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My suggestion is…and your not going to like it…stop seeking all that attention from various priests, brothers and or the religious. There isn’t any way that someone online can know whether you are a heretic or not without knowledge of your theological stance or Christian basis or lack of. I would NOT bother the Bishop with this unless it was recommended by a priest or brother.
 
O i like all advice. It would be easy to just listen to my spiritual director but if anyone is a heretic he is. You can just pick a spiritual director who you agree with. I have a great one but he is definitely a heretic as i read the code of canon law. The confessors i goto are dumb. They admit it.
 
I would think the canon lawyer would know best amd he says i am a heretic.
 
Why is it so important to you? Sounds like a bragging thing, Nothing I would tell ANYONE.
If you think you are, REPENT dude! Repent.
Nothing good is coming from this, obviously.
Vanity is deadly.
 
Dew said:
You can just pick a spiritual director who you agree with.
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You need to pray about it. Ask the Holy Spirit for wisdom and guidance, and then, with God’s help, discern what you should do.

And repent. Go to Confession. Stop wasting time. Follow the commandments. Be like this scribe:
One of the scribes, when he came forward and heard them disputing and saw how well he had answered them, asked him, “Which is the first of all the commandments?” Jesus replied, “The first is this: ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is Lord alone! You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” The scribe said to him, “Well said, teacher. You are right in saying, ‘He is One and there is no other than he.’ And ‘to love him with all your heart, with all your understanding, with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself’ is worth more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.” And when Jesus saw that he answered with understanding, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And no one dared to ask him any more questions.
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It is important because everybody in the church who has the same actual code of canon law to check is telling me different things and it seems to me anyone can just shop around to find a church, a lawyer, a confessor and a director that agree with them. Why doesn’t the church have some central authority to check out who is interpretting the teachings correctly? It is bothering me because it causes arguments which are never resolved when you engage in discussions with other catholics. I get called a heretic, then i say this priest is teaching this to me , or this brother or that theology professor, and they never even got censured or penalized by the church. Then the person will say latae sententiae makes all of us heretics even if the hierarchy does not penalize us. It is crazy. I have limited intelligence and certainly am not qualified or capable of understanding canon law technicalities. And the only canon lawyer who will work pro bono with me tells me i am a heretic, but that the many other people who are involved in my faith formation are too, and those people are actually employed by the church. The lawyer is a private attorney. So it is confusing. Repentence has nothing to do with this matter. The question is whose opinion is to be given most weight? If it is one’s spiritual director then I am good. If it is a canon lawyer then I am not good. I would think one’s bishop’s opinion should be given the most weight but from my research i see different bishops have widely differing views and some are strict about what they allow to be taught in their diocese and some are quite liberal as to what they allow to be taught as catholic teaching. If i am confused I think others are too.
 
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What are you doing or saying or believing, that some people think is heretical?
 
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People in the church are saying famous catholic teachers who mentor me like FrRichard Rohr and Br David Shermanare teaching heresy. You can research those two. They are super famous and get away with teaching stuff that contradicts traditional Catholicism but as soon as I bring up what they teach me the know it all Catholic laity heresy police say me and my teachers are excommunicated via code of canon law definition of heresy and latae sententiae
 
Try starting a thread with a poll asking the question of whether or not you are a heretic. Explain your views in the thread that you believe may make you a heretic, and then we, the CAF community, will vote on whether or not you are a heretic. Then, you will know for sure.
 
To address the question of whether or not you are a heretic, we do not need to know who mentored you. We need to know what you believe.

Go through the Nicene Creed, line by line. What parts do you believe? What parts do you deny?
 
Uh, i like the ideas in the Nicene creed but i am not saying i have certainty they are true. I am nit affirming or denying anything, i am not both affirming and denying anything. I am neither affirming nor denying anything. I doubt even my doubt. Who knows? I am aware of awareness but probably bet you can never have certainty that the contents of awareness are valid cognitions. All of my memtors are free from censure and never have been in trouble from their bishops. But their teachings contradict the 7 ecumenical councils and they openly teach against parts of these councils amd still are famous catholic theologians. But under latae sententiae they seem to me to be heretics, as do i. But they say they are not. My priest confessor says i am not. My canon lawyer says i am a heretic. Plenty of online experts say i am a heretic while,others say i am not. I just don’t know whose opinion matters in such matters? Wouldn’t a canon lawyer know best, more than a priest or a brother who are my confessor and director? I have been told by my confessor priest and my dorector brother to disregard canon law altogether. But it is the code of canon law that defines who is a heretic!
 
RandomAlias said:
The answer is me, one random anonymous guy on the internet.
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!!!

GK Chesterton wrote two books: “Orthodoxy” and “Heretics”.
Read them both–they’re both on the internet for the price of a google search, and the author has a real fun, dry wit.

So you really go around asking folks if you’re a heretic?

Well anyway,
:pray:t2::pray:t2::pray:t2:
For you
🙂
 
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Fr. Richard Rohr is not following the truthful teachings of The Catholic Church. You need to stop listening to him.
You don’t really believe in The Nicene Creed? That is the statement of our belief as Christians.
Are you just having doubts overall?
 
Dew said:
O i like all advice. It would be easy to just listen to my spiritual director but if anyone is a heretic he is. You can just pick a spiritual director who you agree with. I have a great one but he is definitely a heretic as i read the code of canon law. The confessors i goto are dumb. They admit it.
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Then why are you paying them any attention? Find one Priest who is not a heretic as your confessor.
 
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Dew said:
Uh, i like the ideas in the Nicene creed but i am not saying i have certainty they are true. I am nit affirming or denying anything, i am not both affirming and denying anything. I am neither affirming nor denying anything. I doubt even my doubt.
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You say you are Roman Catholic. From this part of your post, you sound a lot more like an agnostic to me. The first thing you have to do is resolve any doubt you have about the Nicene Creed, the statement of our faith. As long as you sit on the fence, you can never get a final answer.
Then again, I am just a random anonymous poster on an internet forum.
 
Both Anthony deMello and Fr Richard Rohr, two of the greatest Catholic teachers in my lifetime, have encouraged doubt. I have been reseravhingnand i think i am just a heresy savourer. Canon law is complicated. But i think i am good. More people than not say i am inculpable so i am going with thhat. Thanks everyone. More doubt means more faith. Certianty is ugly.
 
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