Who/what gave Catholic Church Ultimate Authority?

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As I stated before, this gets into an entirely different subject than what I originally posted. :o
Actually, no, it does not.

What you are seeing here is a demonstration of what Catholics believe to be the source of the Catholic Church’s authority: a very long tradition of its own people’s descriptions of the church of Rome as having that authority, including interpretations of Scripture which cohere with those descriptions.

Outside of the Catholic Church, there have been other beliefs about Rome’s position, including other interpretations of Scripture which cohere with those beliefs, and so there are churches other than the Catholic Church.
 
Actually, no, it does not.

What you are seeing here is a demonstration of what Catholics believe to be the source of the Catholic Church’s authority: a very long tradition of its own people’s descriptions of the church of Rome as having that authority, including interpretations of Scripture which cohere with those descriptions.
You mean like every Saint and Church father and mother up to the time of the creation of the latest fad reform.
Outside of the Catholic Church, there have been other beliefs about Rome’s position, including other interpretations of Scripture which cohere with those beliefs, and so there are churches other than the Catholic Church.
None of which are protestant or reform in the sense of the Western reformation, re-reformation, revival, non-denominational, or anything remotely of the sort.
 
Thanks for your reply!

So based off this answer it’s actually the Bible that has ultimate authority?
The Bible shows Christ delegated power to specific Individuals who in turn were tasked with passing this “power” on to other specific people as directed by the Holy Spirit. The Bible records ( documents ) this Tradition of Christ and His Apostles.
 
I will respectfully disagree 🙂
Proverbs 8:17: “those who seek me diligently find me”
Jeremiah 29:13: “ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart”

First you seek, then you do.
Ah! Perfect!

An event happened after those ot writings - that fulfills them -

Jesus. We’re just say, lucky to be on this side of the timeline.

If one is ‘Christian’, this is their core belief - Jesus is God.

Boom, done, seeked out and found God, now what?

The Bible’s purpose isn’t simply to be a historical document as wonderfully exampled by your response.

Thus, a bit of the instruction from Jesus himself may be of importance.

And by doing what He teaches, we build a relationship. At least according to Him.

Have to do it to find out.

Take care,
 
You mean like every Saint and Church father and mother up to the time of the creation of the latest fad reform.
“every”? Not even close.
None of which are protestant or reform in the sense of the Western reformation, re-reformation, revival, non-denominational, or anything remotely of the sort.
So, you imagine that Protestant churches are not churches?
 
The answer is simply: Christ did. That’s the only answer.

The only way we know this to be true is from history. Christ founded the Church, and Christ gave it his authority. The Bible is a witness to this history, and we don’t even need it to be doctrinally authoritative for us to believe it as history. This, along with the writings of the early Christians, and the blood the martyrs shed tell us that as a matter of history, the Catholic Church traces itself to Christ. That is where the authority comes from.

It is on the basis of THAT authority that we believe the Bible has any authority at all. The only reason we accept the Bible as the Word of God is because the Catholic Church says so.
Can you please post the Scripture that references this?
 
Can you please post the Scripture that references this?
The clearest is Mt 18:15-18. This is a set of instructions.
Now turn to Acts 15 and you will see these instructions put into practice.

Also note - the word “church” is used only twice in the Gospels. Both times spoken by Jesus and both times in relation to the granting of the authority to bind and loose.

Peace
James
 
The clearest is Mt 18:15-18. This is a set of instructions.
Now turn to Acts 15 and you will see these instructions put into practice.

Also note - the word “church” is used only twice in the Gospels. Both times spoken by Jesus and both times in relation to the granting of the authority to bind and loose.

Peace
James
Thank you. I will read these Scriptures later.
 
Graceful Lamb,

The essentials in Christ establishing His Catholic Church are summarized here:
**All four promises to Peter alone: **
“You are Peter and on this rock I will build My Church.” (Mt 16:18)
“The gates of hell will not prevail against it.”(Mt 16:18)
“I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven." ( Mt 16:19)
“Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven.” (Mt 16:19) [Later, to the Twelve also].

**Sole authority to Peter: **
“Strengthen your brethren.” (Lk 22:32)
“Feed My sheep.”(Jn 21:17).

Christ Himself proclaimed to His Apostles: “I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you." (John 14:18). “The Advocate, the Holy Spirit that the Father will send in My name, He will teach you everything and remind you of all that I told you.” (John 14:26) “But when He comes, the Spirit of truth, He will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on His own, but He will speak what He hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming. He will glorify Me, because He will take from what is mine and declare it to you. Everything that the Father has is mine; for this reason I told you that He will take from what is mine and declare it to you.” (John 16:13-15).

Then, Peter leads the apostles in choosing a replacement for Judas – Matthias is chosen. [Acts 1:15-26].

Peter speaks so well after the dissent of the Holy Spirit that some 3000 Jews are remorseful, converted and baptised! [Acts 2:14-41].

Peter often spoke for the rest of the Apostles (Mt 19:27; Mk 8:29; Lk 12:41; Jn 6:69). The Apostles are sometimes referred to as “Peter and his companions” (Lk 9:32; Mk 16:7; Acts 2:37). Peter’s name always heads the list of the Apostles (Mt 10:1-4; Mk 3:16-19; Lk 6:14-16; Acts 1:13). Finally, Peter’s name is mentioned 191 times, which is more than all the rest of the Apostles combined (about 130 times).

Catholic was first used by St Ignatius of Antioch in his letter to the Smyrneans, A.D. 107, “Where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.” It is from the Greek katholike meaning “general” or “universal”. Within 90 years it meant also “orthodox” or faithful to the teachings of Christ. (The Catholic Catechism, Fr John A Hardon, S.J., Doubleday, 1975, p 217)

The third successor of St Peter, Clement, wrote to the Catholics of Corinth in A.D. 95: “If any man should be disobedient unto the words spoken by God through us, let them understand that they will entangle themselves in no slight transgression and danger… Render obedience to the things written by us through the Holy Spirit.” (I Clem. ad Cor. 59,1). This Is The Faith, Francis J Ripley, Fowler Wright Books, 1971, p 151; 139-141].
 
So based off this answer it’s actually the Bible that has ultimate authority?
The question in the thread has been answered in details but just a personal take on this.

You may be surprised but to the Catholics, the Bible singularly in and by itself, is not the ultimate authority. It must be read and understood through the prism of Sacred Tradition where the Church teaching office, the Magisterium, expounds on it.

As has been said, it is Jesus himself that gave the authority as he gave it to Peter, the apostle. Thus starting with Peter together with the apostles, the Church was born, existed and continue to exist until today.

The reference to the Bible must be very important to you, you being a non-Catholic. It is what you trust in and in explaining to you, there is a need to reference it.

But even without referencing it, what is more important though is the fact that the Church started with the apostles themselves, principally Peter being the chosen one to head it, though of course how the apostles spread out, the formation and administration of the church in diverse areas might not point to this clearly, the fact remained that Peter was the one who was singularly conferred this commission.

And there is no interruption as to the line of successors since Peter until today. Thus when Jesus gave that authority and Peter took it, that very institution has never changed and is still intact from day one of his church. Looking at the office of Peter today, it must be really astounding to imagine an ancient Church and tradition still exist in the mist of us for all to see.

God bless.

Reuben.
 
Jesus gave His Church His authority. the RCC is the Church Jesus founded.

in another sense, the truth gives the Church authority. since, Jesus is the Truth and Jesus is God and Jesus gave the Church the Holy Spirit who is also the Truth, we know the truth is in the RCC.

if the RCC does not possess the truth, then the truth does not now exist in the world and it has never existed in the world.

I did not receive my RC faith from the bible. thus, I did not receive the truth from the bible.

I received my faith through the teachings of the RCC. the RCC received its teachings from Jesus.

Jesus gave the RCC His authority. from where else could it possibly come?

I do think it is a mistaken concept to speak about ultimate authority when speaking about fallible human beings. the RCC itself does not claim the authority to condemn a human being to hell. so, maybe the question could be re-phrased and the word ultimate be removed. like I said, the RCC does not claim ultimate authority.
 
eddie too #90
I do think it is a mistaken concept to speak about ultimate authority when speaking about fallible human beings. the RCC itself does not claim the authority to condemn a human being to hell. so, maybe the question could be re-phrased and the word ultimate be removed. like I said, the RCC does not claim ultimate authority.
Ultimate = highest in degree or order.
Supreme = greatest in status, authority or power

This terminology simply means that no other human being has an equal or higher authority from the Christ to teach, sanctify and rule through His name.

John Henry Cardinal Newman himself stressed in An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine
Chapter 2. On the Antecedent Argument in behalf of Developments in Christian Doctrine
Extract:

“In barbarous times the will is reached through the senses; but in an age in which reason, as it is called, is the standard of {90} truth and right, it is abundantly evident to any one, who mixes ever so little with the world, that, if things are left to themselves, every individual will have his own view of them, and take his own course; that two or three will agree today to part company tomorrow; that Scripture will be read in contrary ways, and history, according to the apologue, will have to different comers its silver shield and its golden; that philosophy, taste, prejudice, passion, party, caprice, will find no common measure, unless there be some supreme power to control the mind and to compel agreement.” [My emphasis].
newmanreader.org/Works/development/chapter2.html#present

None other than Christ’s Magisterium has infallibly taught:
Pastor Aeternus (Ecumenical Council Vatican I, Pastor Aeternus)
“Chapter 3.
On the power and character of the primacy of the Roman Pontiff

8. Since the Roman Pontiff, by the divine right of the apostolic primacy, governs the whole Church, we likewise teach and declare that he ** is the supreme judge of the faithful **[52], and that in all cases which fall under ecclesiastical jurisdiction recourse may be had to his judgment [53]. The sentence of the Apostolic See (than which there is no higher authority) is not subject to revision by anyone, nor may anyone lawfully pass judgment thereupon [54]. And so they stray from the genuine path of truth who maintain that it is lawful to appeal from the judgments of the Roman pontiffs to an ecumenical council as if this were an authority superior to the Roman Pontiff.
9. So, then, if anyone says that **the Roman Pontiff has **merely an office of supervision and guidance, and not the full and supreme power of jurisdiction over the whole Church, and this not only in matters of faith and morals, but also in those which concern the discipline and government of the Church dispersed throughout the whole world; or that he has only the principal part, but not the absolute fullness, of this supreme power; or that this power of his is not ordinary and immediate both over all and each of the Churches and over all and each of the pastors and faithful: let him be anathema.” [My emphasis]
 
THIS! I’m posting here to mark this topic so I can study it.

The Best Topic so far for what I’m needing to learn on my way to Catholicism.

And a big THANK YOU for keeping it orderly and polite…some threads I can’t wait to close out of, not this one…
 
THIS! I’m posting here to mark this topic so I can study it.

The Best Topic so far for what I’m needing to learn on my way to Catholicism.

And a big THANK YOU for keeping it orderly and polite…some threads I can’t wait to close out of, not this one…
👍
 
Hello,

I am a Christian just doing a little research. I am having trouble understanding why the Catholic Church claims it is the one true church?

I’m told that Mt 16:18-19 declares that Peter was the first pope and that the Church is the ultimate authority under God, but this verse cannot be used to prove that declaration because only the Catholic Church can properly interpret the bible. So to me this seems like circular reasoning. Who gave the Catholic Church the ultimate authority?
My sincere apology. I have not read all the posts. So I will simply ask if anyone suggested that you check chapter 14, Gospel of John as being the foundation for the Catholic Church.

In addition, there has to be a belief in God as Creator Who can interact with His human creatures. While the Most Holy Trinity is difficult to understand, it is necessary to accept the Trinity’s existence, three Persons in one nature, as expressed in Scripture.
 
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