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Who's job is it?:The Main Difference Between the Right and the Left: The Role and Scope of Government in Society
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cmforte
Guest
This is too long for one post, so it is broken up in two:
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
1897 "Human society can be neither well-ordered nor prosperous unless it has some people invested with legitimate authority to preserve its institutions and to devote themselves as far as is necessary to work and care for the good of all."15
1898 Every human community needs an authority to govern it.16 The foundation of such authority lies in human nature. It is necessary for the unity of the state. Its role is to ensure as far as possible the common good of the society.
1899 The authority required by the moral order derives from God: "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment."17
POPULAR PROGRESSO
No one may appropriate surplus goods solely for his own private use when others lack the bare necessities of life. In short, “as the Fathers of the Church and other eminent theologians tell us, the right of private property may never be exercised to the detriment of the common good.” When “private gain and basic community needs conflict with one another,” it is for the public authorities “to seek a solution to these questions, with the active involvement of individual citizens and social groups.” Pope Paul VI
What is the Common Good?
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
THE COMMON GOOD
1905 In keeping with the social nature of man, the good of each individual is necessarily related to the common good, which in turn can be defined only in reference to the human person:
Do not live entirely isolated, having retreated into yourselves, as if you were already justified, but gather instead to seek the common good together.25
1906 By common good is to be understood "the sum total of social conditions which allow people, either as groups or as individuals, to reach their fulfillment more fully and more easily."26 The common good concerns the life of all. It calls for prudence from each, and even more from those who exercise the office of authority. It consists of three essential elements:
1907 First, the common good presupposes respect for the person as such. In the name of the common good, public authorities are bound to respect the fundamental and inalienable rights of the human person. Society should permit each of its members to fulfill his vocation. In particular, the common good resides in the conditions for the exercise of the natural freedoms indispensable for the development of the human vocation, such as "the right to act according to a sound norm of conscience and to safeguard . . . privacy, and rightful freedom also in matters of religion."27
1908 Second, the common good requires the social well-being and development of the group itself. Development is the epitome of all social duties. Certainly, it is the proper function of authority to arbitrate, in the name of the common good, between various particular interests; but it should make accessible to each what is needed to lead a truly human life: food, clothing, health, work, education and culture, suitable information, the right to establish a family, and so on.28
1909 Finally, the common good requires peace, that is, the stability and security of a just order. It presupposes that authority should ensure by morally acceptable means the security of society and its members. It is the basis of the right to legitimate personal and collective defense.
1910 Each human community possesses a common good which permits it to be recognized as such; it is in the political community that its most complete realization is found. It is the role of the state to defend and promote the common good of civil society, its citizens, and intermediate bodies.
1911 Human interdependence is increasing and gradually spreading throughout the world. The unity of the human family, embracing people who enjoy equal natural dignity, implies a universal common good. This good calls for an organization of the community of nations able to "provide for the different needs of men; this will involve the sphere of social life to which belong questions of food, hygiene, education, . . . and certain situations arising here and there, as for example . . . alleviating the miseries of refugees dispersed throughout the world, and assisting migrants and their families."29
1912 The common good is always oriented towards the progress of persons: "The order of things must be subordinate to the order of persons, and not the other way around."30 This order is founded on truth, built up in justice, and animated by love.
Actually, David, upon closer inspection, I see nothing in the the above text that states that it is the obligation of a government, of a political authority, to “distribute resources equitably to the needy of the world.” But only “When “private gain and basic community needs conflict with one another,”.” I see nothing in here that contradicts or corrects my original statement, the one you responded to with the above. I don’t even disagree with this part, as long as each nation can still be sovereign within its own spheres: : "1911 Human interdependence is increasing and gradually spreading throughout the world. The unity of the human family, embracing people who enjoy equal natural dignity, implies a universal common good. This good calls for an organization of the community of nations able to "provide for the different needs of men; this will involve the sphere of social life to which belong questions of food, hygiene, education, . . . and certain situations arising here and there, as for example . . . alleviating the miseries of refugees dispersed throughout the world, and assisting migrants and their families."29 "
(continued in next post)
-Chris
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
1897 "Human society can be neither well-ordered nor prosperous unless it has some people invested with legitimate authority to preserve its institutions and to devote themselves as far as is necessary to work and care for the good of all."15
1898 Every human community needs an authority to govern it.16 The foundation of such authority lies in human nature. It is necessary for the unity of the state. Its role is to ensure as far as possible the common good of the society.
1899 The authority required by the moral order derives from God: "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment."17
POPULAR PROGRESSO
No one may appropriate surplus goods solely for his own private use when others lack the bare necessities of life. In short, “as the Fathers of the Church and other eminent theologians tell us, the right of private property may never be exercised to the detriment of the common good.” When “private gain and basic community needs conflict with one another,” it is for the public authorities “to seek a solution to these questions, with the active involvement of individual citizens and social groups.” Pope Paul VI
What is the Common Good?
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
THE COMMON GOOD
1905 In keeping with the social nature of man, the good of each individual is necessarily related to the common good, which in turn can be defined only in reference to the human person:
Do not live entirely isolated, having retreated into yourselves, as if you were already justified, but gather instead to seek the common good together.25
1906 By common good is to be understood "the sum total of social conditions which allow people, either as groups or as individuals, to reach their fulfillment more fully and more easily."26 The common good concerns the life of all. It calls for prudence from each, and even more from those who exercise the office of authority. It consists of three essential elements:
1907 First, the common good presupposes respect for the person as such. In the name of the common good, public authorities are bound to respect the fundamental and inalienable rights of the human person. Society should permit each of its members to fulfill his vocation. In particular, the common good resides in the conditions for the exercise of the natural freedoms indispensable for the development of the human vocation, such as "the right to act according to a sound norm of conscience and to safeguard . . . privacy, and rightful freedom also in matters of religion."27
1908 Second, the common good requires the social well-being and development of the group itself. Development is the epitome of all social duties. Certainly, it is the proper function of authority to arbitrate, in the name of the common good, between various particular interests; but it should make accessible to each what is needed to lead a truly human life: food, clothing, health, work, education and culture, suitable information, the right to establish a family, and so on.28
1909 Finally, the common good requires peace, that is, the stability and security of a just order. It presupposes that authority should ensure by morally acceptable means the security of society and its members. It is the basis of the right to legitimate personal and collective defense.
1910 Each human community possesses a common good which permits it to be recognized as such; it is in the political community that its most complete realization is found. It is the role of the state to defend and promote the common good of civil society, its citizens, and intermediate bodies.
1911 Human interdependence is increasing and gradually spreading throughout the world. The unity of the human family, embracing people who enjoy equal natural dignity, implies a universal common good. This good calls for an organization of the community of nations able to "provide for the different needs of men; this will involve the sphere of social life to which belong questions of food, hygiene, education, . . . and certain situations arising here and there, as for example . . . alleviating the miseries of refugees dispersed throughout the world, and assisting migrants and their families."29
1912 The common good is always oriented towards the progress of persons: "The order of things must be subordinate to the order of persons, and not the other way around."30 This order is founded on truth, built up in justice, and animated by love.
Actually, David, upon closer inspection, I see nothing in the the above text that states that it is the obligation of a government, of a political authority, to “distribute resources equitably to the needy of the world.” But only “When “private gain and basic community needs conflict with one another,”.” I see nothing in here that contradicts or corrects my original statement, the one you responded to with the above. I don’t even disagree with this part, as long as each nation can still be sovereign within its own spheres: : "1911 Human interdependence is increasing and gradually spreading throughout the world. The unity of the human family, embracing people who enjoy equal natural dignity, implies a universal common good. This good calls for an organization of the community of nations able to "provide for the different needs of men; this will involve the sphere of social life to which belong questions of food, hygiene, education, . . . and certain situations arising here and there, as for example . . . alleviating the miseries of refugees dispersed throughout the world, and assisting migrants and their families."29 "
(continued in next post)
-Chris
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cmforte
Guest
(continued):
…My reaction was an emotional and knee-jerk one, not a rational one. I wasn’t really reacting to or disagreeing with what The Church teaches about this subject, but*** how you interpreted it***. In my brash and thoughtless, knee-jerk reaction, I started questioning the teachings of The Church, instead of questioning ***your interpretation ***of what The Church teaches. It was not my intent to imply that I thought I was “smarter than The Church”. This thread is suppose to be an amiable, adult and critical look at the differences between the Right and Left and how we have the same goals (but some people will even argue with that), just differ on how to implement them, and indeed it was until I made my mistake.
But I still take offense to your presumption on the state of my soul, no matter your intent.
-Chris
…My reaction was an emotional and knee-jerk one, not a rational one. I wasn’t really reacting to or disagreeing with what The Church teaches about this subject, but*** how you interpreted it***. In my brash and thoughtless, knee-jerk reaction, I started questioning the teachings of The Church, instead of questioning ***your interpretation ***of what The Church teaches. It was not my intent to imply that I thought I was “smarter than The Church”. This thread is suppose to be an amiable, adult and critical look at the differences between the Right and Left and how we have the same goals (but some people will even argue with that), just differ on how to implement them, and indeed it was until I made my mistake.
But I still take offense to your presumption on the state of my soul, no matter your intent.
-Chris
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jwinch2
Guest
I would humbly suggest that the money taken out of my paycheck in the form of taxes to support social programs would be far more effectively used in helping the poor if I were to simply donate the same amount my local food bank, my university’s general scholarship fund, or Catholic Charities. At least then it would not be used to create some bloated and wasteful government agency that is subject to the whims of whomever is currently in political power and may or may not be handling things according in what I believe to be a moral standpoint.
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cmforte
Guest
davidmlamb, respectfully speaking, did not make that explicitly clear in his first post, the one where he replied “Yes, it is!!,” to my quote stating that it is not the governmen’ts job to distribute resources equitably to the needy of the world. I would have and do agree with that.Abu, from my perspective, it seems that davidmlamb was talking about how a completely free market is not supported by the Church. He wasn’t talking about how to address poverty, which is what the statements you posted were about.
-Chris
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Chochy
Guest
And yet…I can’t get insurance coverage (travel) for a pre-existing condition if my medication changed 6 months prior to my travel date. Go figure!
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Bluegoat
Guest
I find it interesting that I consistently see people quote the CCC against the teaching in the social encyclicals. People realize I hope that the stuff in the CCC is just a derived shortened summary - not a sum - of the social encyclicals. That is, to understand what the CCC says on this you have to read the social encyclicals.
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cmforte
Guest
Actually, the intro to the Catechism says (from vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P4.HTM):
III. The Aim and Intended Readership of the Catechism
11 This catechism aims at presenting an organic synthesis of the essential and fundamental contents of Catholic doctrine, as regards both faith and morals, in the light of the Second Vatican Council and the whole of the Church’s Tradition. Its principal sources are the Sacred Scriptures, the Fathers of the Church, the liturgy, and the Church’s Magisterium. It is intended to serve “as a point of reference for the catechisms or compendia that are composed in the various countries”.15
-Chris
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Bluegoat
Guest
Yeah, thatActually, the intro to the Catechism says (from vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P4.HTM):
III. The Aim and Intended Readership of the Catechism
11 This catechism aims at presenting an organic synthesis of the essential and fundamental contents of Catholic doctrine, as regards both faith and morals, in the light of the Second Vatican Council and the whole of the Church’s Tradition. Its principal sources are the Sacred Scriptures, the Fathers of the Church, the liturgy, and the Church’s Magisterium. It is intended to serve “as a point of reference for the catechisms or compendia that are composed in the various countries”.15
-Chris
s what I said. The stuff in the CCC is a sort of summary for basic teaching information purposes of the teachings of the Catholic faith. It isnt a sum, or a primary source, it draws on other sources.In the case of social teachings, it draws mostly on the social encyclicals - the teaching of the Magisterium on social issues. Many of the paragraphs in the CCC are right out of those documents. If you are quoting the CCC against them, there is a good chance you have misunderstood the CCC on these issues.
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cmforte
Guest
I am saying that the Catechsm contains the whole of Catholic teaching and is thus the last word on such. Of couse it draws on other sources, but the Catechism alone sets it all in stone. There is always a chance a person is interpreting the CCC and/or social encyclicals incorrectly, just as there is always a chance a person can interpret anything incorrectly.
-Chris
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Bluegoat
Guest
No, that is not at all what the CCC is, or does. It`s a teaching tool, a reference. To understand it properly means reading the documents it draws from.
This reminds me of a time I answered a post asking a question about the soul given a solid orthodox answer in Augustinian terms, and someone complained that it must be wrong since the CCC uses aristotalian-scholastic terms to answer the same question.
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cmforte
Guest
Well as a Catholic to a “classical Anglican” I disagree with you. But that’s ok. Live and let live, I say…No, that is not at all what the CCC is, or does. It`s a teaching tool, a reference. To understand it properly means reading the documents it draws from.
This reminds me of a time I answered a post asking a question about the soul given a solid orthodox answer in Augustinian terms, and someone complained that it must be wrong since the CCC uses aristotalian-scholastic terms to answer the same question.
-Chris
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