Whose sins you forgive

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wyam

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The latest post I have received in another forum from a protestant concerns confession. I’ve heard arguments against confessing to a priest, but not quite like this one:
"with regards to Matthew 20:23, it helps to understand the tense of the Greek words. If we were translate this verse literally, it would say, “Those whose sins you forgive have already been forgiven; those whose sins you do not forgive have not been forgiven.” God does not forgive people’s sins because we do so, nor does he withhold forgiveness because we do. Rather, those who proclaim the gospel are in effect forgiving or not forgiving sins, depending on whether the hearers accept or reject Jesus Christ. This is illustrated when Paul spoke in the synagogue in Acts 13:38-39, “Therefore, my brothers, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.”
Does anyone know about the greek in regards to this passage or have any other thoughts?
Thanks & God bless.
wyam
 
wyam,

the problem is, is that protestants misinterpret Scripture by stating that the forgiveness of sins happens by accepting Christ.
There is a leap that is made there. John 20:23 simply does not say that sins are forgiven by accepting the gospel.
They are trying to force something that is not there by inferring that the Scripture MUST mean that accorduing to their beliefs in Once Saved Always Saved.

So i would start off by rejecting that interpretation of John.
 
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wyam:
Does anyone know about the greek in regards to this passage or have any other thoughts?
Thanks & God bless.
wyam
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The word “apheontai” is in the perfect tense, passive voice, indicative mood. It cannot stand alone as meaning “the sins are already forgiven no matter what the Church does” because the “if” at the beginning of the sentence links “you forgive” with the action of forgiveness. “If you do it, then it’s done!” Moreover, why would there be any mention of “you forgive” if Christ did not mean for us to derive real grace from this ministry?

Your interlocutor confuses the agency of forgiveness through the divinely commissined ministry of the Church with the source of forgiveness, which is Christ himself. Can God forgive sins without the mediation of the Church? Of course. But this ministry is the assurance he has given us through his visible Body, the Church.
 
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wyam:
The latest post I have received in another forum from a protestant concerns confession. I’ve heard arguments against confessing to a priest, but not quite like this one:
"with regards to Matthew 20:23, it helps to understand the tense of the Greek words. If we were translate this verse literally, it would say, “Those whose sins you forgive have already been forgiven; those whose sins you do not forgive have not been forgiven.” God does not forgive people’s sins because we do so, nor does he withhold forgiveness because we do. Rather, those who proclaim the gospel are in effect forgiving or not forgiving sins, depending on whether the hearers accept or reject Jesus Christ. This is illustrated when Paul spoke in the synagogue in Acts 13:38-39, “Therefore, my brothers, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.”
Does anyone know about the greek in regards to this passage or have any other thoughts?
Thanks & God bless.

Most of
wyam
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The Biblical quote and the commentary are direct quotes from the NIV, which is a conservative Protestant Bible.

The RSV says:
Receive the Holy Spriit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; uf tiy retaub tge subs if abtm tget are retaubed: (John 20:23)

The Navare Bible Commentary quotes the Council of Trent, De Paenitentia, chapter 1:

**
'“The Lord then especially instituted the sacrament of Penance when, after being risin from the dead, he breathed upon his disciples and said : ‘Receive the Holy Spirit…’ The consensus of all the Fathers has always acknowledged that by this action so sublime and words so clear the power of forgiging and retaining sisn was given to the Apostles and their lawful successors for the reconciling th faithful who have fallen after Baptism.”

The RSV is considered by most Biblical scholars to be the most accurate translation…It seems to me that the NIV has been miss-translated…It certainly does not reflect the Catholic point of view in this matter.

**
 
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CD4:
The RSV says:
Receive the Holy Spriit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; uf tiy retaub tge subs if abtm tget are retaubed: (John 20:23)
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But, if you move one hand sideways on the keyboard, then anything can happen! :rotfl:

In this case, you made my day. I needed some fun. 🙂
 
CD4 said:
**The RSV is considered by most Biblical scholars to be the most accurate translation…It seems to me that the NIV has been miss-translated…It certainly does not reflect the Catholic point of view in this matter.

**
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actually, most ancient language experts and biblical scholars say the NASB (new american standard bible…not to be confuse with the new american bible) is the most accurate translation.
 
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Pug:
But, if you move one hand sideways on the keyboard, then anything can happen! :rotfl:

In this case, you made my day. I needed some fun. 🙂
Click to expand...
**I was really embarrassed when I saw this!:o But, it did give me a laugh, too…😃 **
 
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