Why are Messianic Jews not considered Christians?

[meltzerboy]

“Jewish descent” doesn’t make them Jewish. To be a Jew, you must have a mother who, by Jewish law, is a Jew. Or have a valid conversion. Many many Messianics who claim
to be Jewish are not. Very few Jews who are Jews by Jewish law are involved with Messianics.

I’ve seen Messianics create phony Jewish relatives, decide on their own that they are Jews, decide that they can call themselves “Jews” because they have been “grafted in”…
none of which makes them Jews.

Most Messianics are wannabes who just copy Jewish observance and culture, even though most of what they are copying was not around at the time of Jesus. So claiming that they want to live like their “Jewish messiah” is a lot of garbage.

If they are Jews by Jewish law, they remain a Jew even if they are involved in Christianity. Jews view Messianics as nothing more than Christianity in Jewish drag.

Isn’t there a Jewish tribe that views being Jewish as based on PATRILINEAL descent, not matrilineal? I don’t recall if it’s the Karaites or some other denomination.

 

[OliveBranch]

In my previous post, I had proffered that Messianic (Christian) Jews are not always just “protestant evangelicals.” There are Jews who are Christians in “Messianic Jewish” congregations, and some that are in Protestant, Catholic or Orthodox ones… Here I mean ethnic Jew with respect to the Jewish people-group themselves, not necessarily the religion of traditional, rabbinic Judaism (though some Jews and Christians in this forum insist on it – and we disagree).

Well, here is just some food for thought…

christian-unity-in-diversity.ourchur.ch/gift-of-truth/reborn-jewish-christianity-messianic-jews-hebrew-catholics/

Again, I hope this is helpful.

 

[byeveryword]

Isn’t there a Jewish tribe that views being Jewish as based on PATRILINEAL descent, not matrilineal? I don’t recall if it’s the Karaites or some other denomination.

Are not the Karaites the ‘sola scriptura’ of Judaism?

 

[meltzerboy]

Are not the Karaites the ‘sola scriptura’ of Judaism?

In a sense, yes, since they practice Judaism on the basis of the written Mosaic Law of Torah (and the rest of Tanakh: Hebrew Bible), rather than the Oral Law of the Talmud or Jewish tradition. However, they sometimes interpret Torah passages metaphorically, and not literally.

 

[CEM5]

(jumping up and down wildly waving my hands in the air) - That’s me!!! I’m Jewish. I have the blood of Abraham in my veins. My family descends from one of the tribes and then went through the diaspora.

And I found Jesus and the Church and was baptized and now I’m Catholic. But I’m still Jewish, just like Jesus, Joseph, Mary and the apostles.

I’m not a gentile. Gentiles are people with no Jewish blood by birth. Thanks be to our Savior, they, too, can be saved and be my spiritual brother/sister.

I’m a Jew that has converted to Christianity. Just like Sister Moss. Just like our Blessed Mother. I’m a “completed” Jew.

I don’t call myself a Messianic Jew because that’s pretty much a Protestant term, and it also connotes someone who is still practicing Judaism simultaneously with Christianity.

The Protestant Jews for Jesus and so forth like to try to continue many Jewish traditions alongside their Sunday worship. They throw in a few Jewish rituals here and there. But as Catholics. our very Catholic traditions and rituals are so totally Jewish in origin, that there is no reason to have to superimpose old Hebrew rituals on top of the regular Sunday worship.

The Protestants, especially the evangelical and fundamentalist sects, have removed most of the original Jewish traces from their services. But not so with the Catholics. Most converted Jews are amazed at all the original Jewish rituals and practices that remain imbedded in Catholic worship.

I am a happy, happy Catholic, but I can’t remove the Jewish blood from my veins, nor do I want to. I am happy to think that I came from one of the tribes, the chosen people, that produced Moses, Elijah, David, Jesus, Mary and Joseph. I can’t be “proud” of that - I did nothing to deserve it, But I am happy to be one of those born to the chosen people who was graced with the knowledge of the true Messiah - our Lord, Jesus Christ!

Jesus came to be the savior of the Jews and the Gentiles. I’m one of the Jews he saved. Hallelujah!

That is so wonderful to hear Sojo!

You are one of the few Jewish people who can trace their bloodline to the remaining 2 Tribes of Israel. Is it Judah or Benjamin? Also, there are genetic differences between the Ashkenazi Jews and the Sephardic Jews, with the Ashenazi Jews composing roughly 80 % of the Jewish peoples today (and of European ancestry, whereas the Sephardic are of Spanish ancestry).

What I think many people “forget” is that the other 10 Tribes of Israel were scattered throughout and assimilated into other countries/lands, thus becoming part of the gentile nations and through time, lost their memory of being an Israelite, for their decendants became Gentiles thus pagans practices by the time Christ came. Therefore, many Gentiles unknowingly may also have the bloodlines/genetic markers of Jacob who became the Patriarch Israel. Consequently, many are “cousins” by blood without realizing this fact.

I believe this is what St Paul alluded to in the Bible, that “all Israel will be saved” as follows:

Romans 11:
24 For if you have been cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these natural branches be grafted back into their own olive tree. 25 So that you may not claim to be wiser than you are, brothers and sisters, I want you to understand this mystery: a hardening has come upon part of Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved; as it is written, “Out of Zion will come the Deliverer; he will banish ungodliness from Jacob.”

So, by converting from paganistic practices and beliefs and becoming Christian (back then you were either Jewish or Pagan in practicing your religious beliefs when Christ came) you then became the true children of God. By “the full number of Gentiles [coming in]”…so all Israel will be saved, can be seen as those Gentiles of the 10 Lost Tribes, along with the remaining 2 Tribes of Judah and Benjamin, those converts of the 12 Tribes (all Israel now) saved through conversion to Christianity through Jesus, thus “banish[ing] ungodliness from Jacob”.

So, perhaps, I am your cousin many times removed! (After all, I do have the mixed ancestry of multiple European nations, and possibly Moorish blood as well from my Spanish great-grandfather).

blessings

CEM

P.S. Also, many non-Jewish peoples have the blood of Abraham as well, since Abraham fathered the Arab nation, (through Hagar) along with some Gentile nations with his last wife.

 

[Zooey]

I have friends & acquaintances who are Messianics, & they are all careful to distinguish that they are Messianic Christians. They are evangelical Christians who choose to worship in a congregation that is made up of folks who are partly like themsleves evangelicals, & others who are ethnic Jews who have converted to Christianity.
The reason is that they have had problems with a small group of people who know little or nothing about Judaism, & yet try to gain followers. They are some kind of Protestant, but they have all their own ideas about what that means. Yet they choose to tell people just that they are “Jews”, & refuse to be called Christian. Most of them are pretty unkind to both Christians & Jews, but especially mean to ethnic Jews who have converted…It is very sad, but this may be the reason that different folks in different partd of the world have such varying experiences with these people, that there are different groups using the same label.