Why are we not in the garden of eden?

[third_servant]

If we are truly forgiven of Original sin, why are we not in the Garden of Eden? Why are we still suffering and held responsible for the sin of Adam?

 

[springbreeze]

Because we still sin.

Go and see your Priest

You remain in my prayers

God Bless

Teresa

 

[third_servant]

springbreeze:

Because we still sin.

Adam didn’t sin while he was in the garden of eden until Original Sin.

If we were back there, how would we still sin?

C’mon, here I am suffering in life and I’m back in the garden of eden? I would never sin again so I could stay!

But even with this, we are not there. Why? Why are we still held responsible for Adam’s sin?

 

[Grace_and_Glory]

Jesus’ redemption of mankind was accomplished on the Cross. However, the application of that redemptive work is still occurring. This application will be made complete when the world ends when there will be new heavens and a new earth. Until then, we wait, because “The Lord is not slow about his promise, as some think of slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish, but all to come to repentance.”

 

[third_servant]

Grace and Glory:

Jesus’ redemption of mankind was accomplished on the Cross. However, the application of that redemptive work is still occurring. This application will be made complete when the world ends when there will be new heavens and a new earth. Until then, we wait, because “The Lord is not slow about his promise, as some think of slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish, but all to come to repentance.”

So wait. Does this mean we are not forgiven of original sin YET?

If we are forgiven of original sin, why are we not back in the garden of eden, since that original sin is what got us kicked out of there?

 

[Trelow]

third_servant:

So wait. Does this mean we are not forgiven of original sin YET?

If we are forgiven of original sin, why are we not back in the garden of eden, since that original sin is what got us kicked out of there?

Baptism removes the guilt of original sin, but the consequences of it remain.

For a bad example:
If someone were drop a cinder block on your toe and you forgave them, although you don’t hold it against them, your toe would still hurt.

 

[third_servant]

Trelow:

Baptism removes the guilt of original sin, but the consequences of it remain.

For a bad example:
If someone were drop a cinder block on your toe and you forgave them, although you don’t hold it against them, your toe would still hurt.

OK, but if someone gets baptized, and then gets hit by a car and dies immediately afterwards, they go to heaven - do not pass go, do not collect $200, do not spend any time in purgatory.

So thus, baptism also removes the temporal punishment of original sin as well.

So if this is true, and Adam & Eve were kicked out of Eden for a punishment, then we should be back.

Baptism → Eden right away.

 

[Trelow]

third_servant:

OK, but if someone gets baptized, and then gets hit by a car and dies immediately afterwards, they go to heaven - do not pass go, do not collect $200, do not spend any time in purgatory.

So thus, baptism also removes the temporal punishment of original sin as well.

CCC

405 Although it is proper to each individual, original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam’s descendants. It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin - an inclination to evil that is called concupiscence". Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ’s grace, erases original sin and turns a man back towards God,** but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle.**

So if this is true, and Adam & Eve were kicked out of Eden for a punishment, then we should be back.
.

Genesis 3:22-24 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever” – therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken. He drove out the man; and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

 

[porthos11]

Don’t you realize that that’s already the case? When we die in a state of grace, that’s already heaven for us, waaay more than Eden. Hence, the declaration of the Church: “O happy fault, O necessary sin of Adam, which gained for us so great a Redeemer!” Because of that sin, Jesus became man, so that we can become children of God, and as such, partakers of his divine nature. That is something granted us not even Adam had originally. It is made possible only through Christ, so actually, Adam’s sin opened more for us than what he originally had.

We can’t have Eden or Paradise while in this world because we still have personal sin, and the propensity/attachment to that sin. Baptism wipes out all sin plus eternal and temporal punishment, but it doesn’t wipe out concupiscence. We remain fallen, and are therefire ineligible of Eden while we are still alive.

Besides that, the garden is gone. Nature itself has turned against man because of his rebellion against God. Only the world to come is our inheritance now, but is infintely more beautiful and happier, well worth the wait.

third_servant:

OK, but if someone gets baptized, and then gets hit by a car and dies immediately afterwards, they go to heaven - do not pass go, do not collect $200, do not spend any time in purgatory.

So thus, baptism also removes the temporal punishment of original sin as well.

So if this is true, and Adam & Eve were kicked out of Eden for a punishment, then we should be back.

Baptism → Eden right away.

 

[cynic]

porthos11:

Don’t you realize that that’s already the case? When we die in a state of grace, that’s already heaven for us, waaay more than Eden. Hence, the declaration of the Church: “O happy fault, O necessary sin of Adam, which gained for us so great a Redeemer!” Because of that sin, Jesus became man, so that we can become children of God, and as such, partakers of his divine nature. That is something granted us not even Adam had originally. It is made possible only through Christ, so actually, Adam’s sin opened more for us than what he originally had.

.

that would mean that God predestined man to sin, and many of us to go to hell for it, in order for us to reach this state. That takes away our free will. It’s more common to believe that God wants us back to a pre-fall state, not knowing good or evil, like children.

By the way what do you think Adam and Eve did while they were in Eden, day to day? In a wrold where everything is perfect, no sinners to convert, no suffering, what do you actually do? (or think)

 

[porthos11]

cynic:

that would mean that God predestined man to sin, and many of us to go to hell for it, in order for us to reach this state. That takes away our free will. It’s more common to believe that God wants us back to a pre-fall state, not knowing good or evil, like children.

No, the Church doesn’t teach that. Note that those words are in the Exsultet during the Easter Vigil, so they do mean something to the Church, but not predestination; rather, it means that even though Adam’s sin was grievous for all of mankind, it opened the way for mankind to be even more blessed than in the beginning. Because of Adam’s sin, the end result is that human nature has become part of the Godhead, and we become partakers of God’s nature. It only shows that from Adam’s abuse of his free will, God brought about an even greater good.

 

[third_servant]

** but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle.**

So why are we still having this? Why wasn’t this washed away by baptism?

Genesis 3:22-24 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever” – therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken. He drove out the man; and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

I don’t want this knowledge. I want to be with God - either in heaven or the garden of eden - now.

How do I get rid of this knowledge and have God take us back?

 

[third_servant]

porthos11:

Don’t you realize that that’s already the case? When we die in a state of grace, that’s already heaven for us,

If that’s heaven, why are we still suffering?

We can’t have Eden or Paradise while in this world because we still have personal sin, and the propensity/attachment to that sin. Baptism wipes out all sin plus eternal and temporal punishment, but it doesn’t wipe out concupiscence. We remain fallen, and are therefire ineligible of Eden while we are still alive.

How do I get rid of concupiscense, so I can get back to eden?

Besides that, the garden is gone.

Where does it say that in scripture, or tradition?

 

[space_ghost]

…due to a minor “eviction notice” served upon our ancestors for failing to conform…

not a pretty sight…
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[third_servant]

space ghost:

…due to a minor “eviction notice” served upon our ancestors for failing to conform…

not a pretty sight…

True. So why is the “eviction notice” not rescinded when we have now been conforming (through Jesus Christ)?

 

[elizabeth4truth]

third_servant:

True. So why is the “eviction notice” not rescinded when we have now been conforming (through Jesus Christ)?

Dear Third Servant,

Good question! Here’s my take on it:

The “eviction notice” is rescinded! Eternal, spiritual, death has been expiated by Jesus Christ.

When we want to return to Eden, on earth, we want to return to the innocence of our first mother and father. They knew Good before they knew bad. Because they chose to know bad, we are left with that knowledge. It’s a constant battle that tries to overshadow Good.

I think what we believe is, at Jesus’ Second Coming, the physical will be restored to it’s original state? So until then, we have to wait for God’s will to be done on earth, as it is in heaven.

 

[space_ghost]

third_servant:

True. So why is the “eviction notice” not rescinded when we have now been conforming (through Jesus Christ)?

…like most, we are not going to get out of this world alive… Christ came and showed us the way… gave us a path to follow, and we have to put one foot in front of the other to follow…

no one said free ride, but Christ did shine a light at the end of the tunnell… for some it will be a very long tunnell… it’s your choice to enter however… tell you what, be not afraid, this is one tunnell you will be glad you entered…

this is one time the reward will be worth the struggle… but do the right thing… hold the door and bring as many of your brothers with you as you can…

there’s a party at the other end… wouldn’t want to miss this one.

 

[deb1]

cynic:

By the way what do you think Adam and Eve did while they were in Eden, day to day? In a wrold where everything is perfect, no sinners to convert, no suffering, what do you actually do? (or think)

Actually it says in the bible that Adam (kJV) was to dress and till the garden. GOd knows our natures so completly that he even arranged to keep Adam and Eve from getting bored.

 

[Pentecost2005]

Third Servant,

Read the Catechism.

And please don’t respond with, “I don’t have a copy. I can’t afford a copy. I don’t where to borrow one. My local parish doesn’t have one. I can’t read.”