Why aren't flag draped coffins allowed in church?

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You can have whatever you want inside the casket as that is not seen during the funeral.
 
Aydan said:
Does this provision also apply to inside the casket as well? For instance what if someone wanted to be buried with a small hand-held Turkish flag and or small handheld American flag? What if they have a small Turkish pendant that they never take off and they want to be buried wearing it? Would liturgical law prohibit these things?
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Liturgical law would not prohibit it. However, it would depend just how far one take that, and what the intentions are. A small item (or a few) which might be significant for the deceased would be entirely appropriate. However, this might be taken too far. Loading up the inside of the casket with “grave goods” might be inappropriately expressing an attachment to worldly things. Also, if these things are done in an anti-Christian mindset, they would be inappropriate (“he’s going to need his laptop in heaven, so we’ll put it in there with him” would be anti-Christian thinking). I’ve seen children place things in the caskets of loved ones. This might give them some comfort, and again it would be entirely appropriate, but we have to be careful just how we approach this, so that we’re not outright teaching the little ones that people will have these objects in heaven (not an easy compromise to make, and perhaps it’s best to allow it and explain it better when they get a little older).

I don’t know how the nation of Turkey would think about this, but in the US, Old Glory should NEVER be buried–that would be an act of disrespect for the flag. A flag-pin would be fine but the flag itself should not be buried.
 
Oh yes I would never want to load the casket down I was talking small items. I have a Turkish crescent and star hanging next to my St. Christopher and St. Michael medallions that I use to represent all of the Turkish Christians who were martyred for Christ and the only time I have ever taken them off is for surgery. I was talking about wanting to be buried wearing those. Actually I was just using the flags as national symbols without even thinking. I would never want to disrespect the flags of either nation. It would be seen as disrespectful to be buried with the Turkish flag as well in fact it is it is considered very disrespectful to even wearthe Turkish flag. Not to mention it’s actually illegal to do so as well which is why they have Crescent and star pendants. I just used two really bad examples without even thinking.
FrDavid96 said:
Liturgical law would not prohibit it. However, it would depend just how far one take that, and what the intentions are. A small item (or a few) which might be significant for the deceased would be entirely appropriate. However, this might be taken too far. Loading up the inside of the casket with “grave goods” might be inappropriately expressing an attachment to worldly things. Also, if these things are done in an anti-Christian mindset, they would be inappropriate (“he’s going to need his laptop in heaven, so we’ll put it in there with him” would be anti-Christian thinking). I’ve seen children place things in the caskets of loved ones. This might give them some comfort, and again it would be entirely appropriate, but we have to be careful just how we approach this, so that we’re not outright teaching the little ones that people will have these objects in heaven (not an easy compromise to make, and perhaps it’s best to allow it and explain it better when they get a little older).

I don’t know how the nation of Turkey would think about this, but in the US, Old Glory should NEVER be buried–that would be an act of disrespect for the flag. A flag-pin would be fine but the flag itself should not be buried.
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A few years ago one of our parishioners was buried with his wrist watch; I don’t know if it was intentional. His wake was in the Church so they put the casket in the adoration chapel overnight.

That was the night of 24-hour adoration.

It was a bit startling for those in adoration when the alarm went off at 4:30 am. 😃
 
This is very interesting; as a child I attended a funeral Mass of a pilot and his coffin was draped with an American flag. I remember it clearly because I’d never been to a funeral before and it made a big impression. This was in 1957 or 1958, before any liturgical reforms.
 
Aydan said:
ahh Now I understand. When I read that flag draped coffins were not allowed there was no explanation and I found it extremely distressing since most of my friends are vets. Do you know if the family still receives the burial flag?
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The Catholic Church was very much against the idea of America as it advocated religious freedom and “mother church” objects to that idea. America is a product of the Reformation, not the Holy Roman Empire. No religious freedom ever existed as it does in America before its start on the Rhode Island Colony.

It is an insult to the RCC to have an American Flag in their churches in that it represents separation from a State Church.
 
Henry_Green said:
The Catholic Church was very much against the idea of America as it advocated religious freedom and “mother church” objects to that idea. America is a product of the Reformation, not the Holy Roman Empire. No religious freedom ever existed as it does in America before its start on the Rhode Island Colony.

It is an insult to the RCC to have an American Flag in their churches in that it represents separation from a State Church.
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Citations, please?
 
Henry_Green said:
The Catholic Church was very much against the idea of America as it advocated religious freedom and “mother church” objects to that idea. America is a product of the Reformation, not the Holy Roman Empire. No religious freedom ever existed as it does in America before its start on the Rhode Island Colony.

It is an insult to the RCC to have an American Flag in their churches in that it represents separation from a State Church.
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Hogwash. The pilgrims didn’t come to America from England (which was religiously oppressed), they came after heading to Holland, which had too MUCH religious freedom for their taste. Just as America is NOT the oldest democracy, we’re not the oldest practitioners of religious freedom either.
 
Henry_Green said:
The Catholic Church was very much against the idea of America as it advocated religious freedom and “mother church” objects to that idea. America is a product of the Reformation, not the Holy Roman Empire. No religious freedom ever existed as it does in America before its start on the Rhode Island Colony.

It is an insult to the RCC to have an American Flag in their churches in that it represents separation from a State Church.
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I think that you will find that Maryland, founded by Catholics, had freedom of religion until it lost its Catholic majority.
 
I suppose part of the problem is the mixing of the sacred and the secular.

The removal of the flag from a casket, its replacement with a pall prior to entrance into a Church and the removal and replacement of the pall with the flag upon its exit is one thing. As a retired career Army Lt. Col, with over 20 years on active duty, I have a slightly different question.

A Military Funeral with full military honors is a right every former soldier, sailor, airman, marine, and coast guardsman whether active, reserve, retired, or simply a veteran has, though the honors this included vary with the service and rank of the deceased. A Military Funeral with full military honors is an Official State Funeral: It is the Service - the Army in my case, literally burying its own. In the case of a retired career (Lt. Col / Commander 0-5 or above) officer, in the Army Military Funeral, that includes the right not only to the flag over the casket, but the presence of an honor guard, armed, in full uniform with medals, a military band, the firing of a volley of a certain number rifles, and the playing of taps at the gravesite. Where available (of course), a uniformed military chaplain of the appropriate faith in full dress uniform with large medals and badges officiates at the graveside. In the Church, the uniformed, armed escort accompanies the body down the aisle. The military chaplain in aropriate Church vestments, of course officiates at the Mass or the equivalent.

While clergy of some denominations have no problem with this others do, and at times things can get nasty, especially if the deceased died while on active duty. I personally know of instances involving Protestant Churches where the Army threatened to literally take over and forced the formal military funeral at the request of the family. (That is never a problem if the funeral is in a military chapel on a military base using a military chaplain and military personnel entirely, but there are Federal laws on the books which do provide for that.) Which brings me to my question.

Is a full, formal military funeral for a senior officer with all the military “bells and whistles” both in the Church itself and at the graveside permitted (remember that this would be a formal, Military State Funeral - the Army or whichever Armed Service literally “burying its own,”) permitted in a Catholic Church and in a Catholic Cemetary?

Blessings,
IAGladfelter, Lt. Col, USA, (Ret)
 
Continuing my question with a related one: What about a formal, Military (State) Funeral for a retired senior officer who’s more than 20 years active duty was not as a Chaplain, but was, rather in one of the combat arms, support or service support corps, but later became ordained a deacon, priest, and possibly bishop? Would he or his relatives have to choose between the full military funeral - performed on post and with internment in a military or VA cemetary rather than in a catholic one, versus the Church’s funeral for a cleric of his Order? Would it have to be the one or the other, If the funeral of a cleric of his Order was chosen, would the military aspect have to be limited to, say, the presentation fo a flag and the playing of Taps alone?

IAGladfelter
 
IAGladfelter said:
Blessings,
IAGladfelter, Lt. Col, USA, (Ret)
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I can’t answer your question, Sir, but I wanted to take the time to thank you for your service. Hope someday I can look from where you are now.

~VR,
Paul, 1Lt, USAF
 
I can’t answer your question either, but I found it interesting today when I went to check the relevant item in the funeral liturgy that it states that no flag or insignia of any kind, not even of Catholic organizations like the Knights of Columbus, are to be on the coffin during the funeral.
 
IAGladfelter said:
Is a full, formal military funeral for a senior officer with all the military “bells and whistles” both in the Church itself and at the graveside permitted (remember that this would be a formal, Military State Funeral - the Army or whichever Armed Service literally “burying its own,”) permitted in a Catholic Church and in a Catholic Cemetary?

Blessings,
IAGladfelter, Lt. Col, USA, (Ret)
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Yes.

The military provides the honors, the Church provides the prayers. There is no conflict between the two. The regulations were actually written with that principle in mind.

There are a few minor exceptions when there might at first seem to be a conflict, but in those cases, the regulations specifically make accomodations for Catholic practice. One example of this is that military personel are to follow the Chaplain with regard to having their heads covered or uncovered. A provision is specifically made that at Catholic funerals, heads are uncovered even if the Chaplain is wearing the biretta.

From the Church’s perspective, the military honors are indeed permitted.

(I believe the source would be FM 143-2 but it’s been a while)
 
Thank you. That is what I hoped would be the case.

And Lt. Paul, thank you so very much for serving our country.

Blessings to all.

IAGladfelter (Lt. Col., USA, (Ret)
 
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