Why aren't Muslims Jewish?

[ralphinal]

After reading the first page I began to wonder if any Muslims would actually participate in this thread, or if it was going to be totally useless… seems some Muslims did reply then, on page 2.

I think the whole discussion thus far has been a little silly.

Being “Jewish” is more than just following a particular religion. I mean, when did Jews start calling themselves Jews anyway? The Qur’an talks about the Children of Israel and about the Jews. There are different words… fascinating really, why one is used vs. the other. Can see the Jews as being a subset of the descendents of Isaac, specifically the descendents of Jacob (who are called the Children of Israel)?

Because Muslims are not by and large descendents of Abraham through Isaac and Jacob. They are spiritual descendents of Abraham (in the greater sense) while mostly the literal descendents of Abraham are really the “Jews” who converted to Islam, and of course the Arabs who trace a line through Ishmael.

Anyway, it’s a weird question to ask why Muslims aren’t Jewish. Why aren’t Christians Jewish? It’s just weird. Some Jews can be Muslim, and are. They retain the label of being Jewish as an ethnic rather than religious identity.

But what a Muslim is is someone who submits his will to God’s, someone who believes in Allah and in all of Allah’s messengers, including Muhammad.

I must admit that I missed that part of the issue. You are correct that being Jewish is being a part of the Tribes of Isreal in the Biblical sense. However, I took the OP to be using it as a member of the faith of the Children of Isreal.

Your point is a good one

 

[Sister_Amy]

I must admit that I missed that part of the issue. You are correct that being Jewish is being a part of the Tribes of Isreal in the Biblical sense. However, I took the OP to be using it as a member of the faith of the Children of Isreal.

Your point is a good one

Muslims certainly do follow the same faith as was preached by the prophets sent to the Children of Israel. Certainly they do. So that makes all the people who follow those teachings (even if they are “Jewish”) Muslim, according to the meaning of what a ‘Muslim’ is.

But Muslims today believe in more of God’s messengers than Jews do.

 

[ralphinal]

Muslims certainly do follow the same faith as was preached by the prophets sent to the Children of Israel. Certainly they do. So that makes all the people who follow those teachings (even if they are “Jewish”) Muslim, according to the meaning of what a ‘Muslim’ is.

But Muslims today believe in more of God’s messengers than Jews do.

No, they do not follow the same faith. Do they have the same holy days? Do they follow the same food laws? Do they have the same understanding of God? Of heaven and hell? Do they use the same prayers? Do they use the same Scriptures?

 

[Madaglan]

Muslims certainly do follow the same faith as was preached by the prophets sent to the Children of Israel. Certainly they do. So that makes all the people who follow those teachings (even if they are “Jewish”) Muslim, according to the meaning of what a ‘Muslim’ is.

But Muslims today believe in more of God’s messengers than Jews do.

Ancient Jewish worship was centered on the priesthood, the Temple and sacrifice. How do Muslims share the same faith? Where is the priesthood in Islam? Where is the Temple? Where the sacrifice?

 

[MugenOne]

Arguing with Muslims really makes myheadmad. Who were the thousands of prophets sent by Allah to the Children of the Book?

 

[LUISV]

Muslims certainly do follow the same faith as was preached by the prophets sent to the Children of Israel. Certainly they do. So that makes all the people who follow those teachings (even if they are “Jewish”) Muslim, according to the meaning of what a ‘Muslim’ is.

But Muslims today believe in more of God’s messengers than Jews do.

Great point. By this definition of Muslim then even Christians are Muslim. No problem there. What I do not understand is why, if Christians and Jews are Muslims, do they not have the same rights under sharia as Muslims who follow Islam?

 

[inJESUS]

Muslims are not Jews ( meaning the Jews of today) first because they believe Jesus is the Messiah, which would make them Christians (in this regard) and second because they have a different book but Muslims, who believe in the Messiah yet stressing what they pick and choose from the Mosaic law by rejecting Jesus’ fulfillment of the Law makes them more of Judaisers, and specifically gnostic Zudaisers.

 

[Jay53]

I must admit that I missed that part of the issue. You are correct that being Jewish is being a part of the Tribes of Isreal in the Biblical sense. However, I took the OP to be using it as a member of the faith of the Children of Isreal.

Your point is a good one

I did mean Jewish in the sense of those who practice Judaism and Muslim in the generally understood sense of those who practice Islam.

 

[Jay53]

why take unnecessary troubles when we follow the Final Holy Book of God Almighty ? Why not join us ?

Thank you for the offer, but that would be an emphatic NO.

(You have to remember that I had a very specific prayer answered by Jesus (through a novena to St. Therese, the Little Flower) regarding His role in my life (to be vague because yes, it was/is rather personal). This prayer was most definitely answered with absolutely no doubt in my mind. It was not a coincidence or maybe or maybe I’m interpreting it wrong. This was a most definite answer. For that main reason, among numerous others, there is absolutely no human being that will ever convince me to abandon Jesus or my faith in Him. I would literally die for Him - although I do pray that I am never put to the test.)

 

[tomarin]

I know, that sounds like a strange title, but I couldn’t come up with anything else. And this may have been asked and answered already, but I couldn’t find it. If so, please point me in the right direction.

I probably have the history wrong here, but didn’t Muhammad at one point before establishing the first Islamic state seek to join forces with a Jewish tribe and was rebuffed, at which point he became disillusioned with the Jews and Judaism generally?

 

[Jay53]

Anyway, it’s a weird question to ask why Muslims aren’t Jewish. Why aren’t Christians Jewish? It’s just weird. Some Jews can be Muslim, and are. They retain the label of being Jewish as an ethnic rather than religious identity.

Perhaps I didn’t explain my question clearly because I obviously didn’t think it was weird. Obviously Christians aren’t Jewish because they believe in the New Covenant of Jesus who died for us. And I didn’t mean Jewish in an ethnic sense, but as someone who practices Judaism.

My question, to put it another way, is more of why did God allegedly, (because I obviously don’t believe it’s from God ) “scrap” the Old Covenant and create a whole new religion rather than just restore the old one. I’m sure there are numerous differences between Islam and Judaism - even the Judaism that was practiced by Moses, etc. Or do Muslims believe they are practicing the religion of Moses - the religion that God intended before it got corrupted?

But what a Muslim is is someone who submits his will to God’s, someone who believes in Allah and in all of Allah’s messengers, including Muhammad.

I understand that “muslim” means someone who submits his will to God. When you add “believes in all of Allah’s messengers, including Muhammad” I believe that changes the definition to someone who practices Islam. Christians would be “muslim” in the sense that we submit our will to God, but we obviously don’t believe in Muhammad and thus do not practice Islam.

My usage of the term was the generally understood second one - someone who practices Islam.

 

[Jay53]

I probably have the history wrong here, but didn’t Muhammad at one point before establishing the first Islamic state seek to join forces with a Jewish tribe and was rebuffed, at which point he became disillusioned with the Jews and Judaism generally?

I have no idea. Hopefully someone with more knowledge of Islamic history can answer that.

 

[tomarin]

I have no idea. Hopefully someone with more knowledge of Islamic history can answer that.

And I will advance further what I wrote in my previous post that this failed union with the Jewish tribe was a turning point for Islam, in which it could have gone one of two ways: become a sect or movement within Judaism or become an independent religion unto itself (it went the latter way of course).

These are things that I vaguely remember learning in an islamic history class taken long ago so I hope someone else will chime in to verify or deny.

 

[Jay53]

Bump

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

I know, that sounds like a strange title, but I couldn’t come up with anything else. And this may have been asked and answered already, but I couldn’t find it. If so, please point me in the right direction.

Anyhow, Muslims seem to quote from the OT, so I don’t think they believe that is corrupted, just the NT and Christianity is wrong. So why aren’t Muslims just Jewish - following God’s Word up until they believe it was corrupted? Or is all of Judaism corrupted too?

Thanks.

Muslims are descendants of Ishmael. Jews are descendants of Isaac. Ishmael and Isaac are sons of Abraham, but they hated each other; Ishmael was born outside of marriage with Hagar, and was thought to be the promised son, but as it turns out God had other plans and Isaac was born later to Abraham’s wife. What a crushing blow to Hagar and Ishmael. They’re descendants have lived in hostilities ever since. (The Arab-Israeli war has a long history.)

But just to throw a spanner in the works, St Paul tells us that the true descendants of Abraham are those who believe in Jesus Christ. Go figure.

 

[meedo]

I know, that sounds like a strange title, but I couldn’t come up with anything else. And this may have been asked and answered already, but I couldn’t find it. If so, please point me in the right direction.

Anyhow, Muslims seem to quote from the OT, so I don’t think they believe that is corrupted, just the NT and Christianity is wrong. So why aren’t Muslims just Jewish - following God’s Word up until they believe it was corrupted? Or is all of Judaism corrupted too?

Thanks.

Hello,

1- The law given to moses was given to the people of Israel. It was not a universal message . The plan of God for the rest of teh universe was outside the laws of the Torah . Yes the option of folloiwng the Noahide commandements existed since Noah. But This was not were it should end for the rest of the world.

2- Jesus was sent to the people of Israel to to begin a new page with them after many transgressions . Generally they failed to follow him. Disbelieved in his prophethood.

3- The concept of chosenness is misunderstood by the Jews. The chosenness in Islam is a responsibility and an obligation to communicate a universal message of God. And everybody becomes the same with the same obligations.

On the other hand , due to the limits of the law for the people of Israel to them, you can have two different set of laws for the jews and the rest of the world. It enforced the erroneous belief with some jews that Jews as the decendants of the people of israel are specifically chosen because of their lineage. Even to the last messenger , jesus , it was evident that the sole goal and objective was directed only to the people of israel and to guide them.

With Jesus bieng rejected by his intended audience, it was the time the responsibility fort the rest of the rest of teh world bieng given to another of the decendant of Abraham.

Thus came the Quranic revelations. It is obligated to communicate Islam not to the arabs but to the world. Muhammed was a messenger and he was the last of the prophets. The last revelation from God .

That is why we follow Islam .

salam

 

[meedo]

Muslims are descendants of Ishmael. Jews are descendants of Isaac. Ishmael and Isaac are sons of Abraham, but they hated each other; Ishmael was born outside of marriage with Hagar, and was thought to be the promised son, but as it turns out God had other plans and Isaac was born later to Abraham’s wife. What a crushing blow to Hagar and Ishmael. They’re descendants have lived in hostilities ever since. (The Arab-Israeli war has a long history.)

But just to throw a spanner in the works, St Paul tells us that the true descendants of Abraham are those who believe in Jesus Christ. Go figure.

The arab israelie war has nothing to do with ishmael and Isac. Ifv muslims wanted to settle a score with jews they wouldnt have had them in their empire . And medieval christians wouldn’t really have objected considering that they believed then that jews killed their God.

 

[Jay53]

Hello,

1- The law given to moses was given to the people of Israel. It was not a universal message . The plan of God for the rest of teh universe was outside the laws of the Torah . Yes the option of folloiwng the Noahide commandements existed since Noah. But This was not were it should end for the rest of the world.

2- Jesus was sent to the people of Israel to to begin a new page with them after many transgressions . Generally they failed to follow him. Disbelieved in his prophethood.

3- The concept of chosenness is misunderstood by the Jews. The chosenness in Islam is a responsibility and an obligation to communicate a universal message of God. And everybody becomes the same with the same obligations.

On the other hand , due to the limits of the law for the people of Israel to them, you can have two different set of laws for the jews and the rest of the world. It enforced the erroneous belief with some jews that Jews as the decendants of the people of israel are specifically chosen because of their lineage. Even to the last messenger , jesus , it was evident that the sole goal and objective was directed only to the people of israel and to guide them.

With Jesus bieng rejected by his intended audience, it was the time the responsibility fort the rest of the rest of teh world bieng given to another of the decendant of Abraham.

Thus came the Quranic revelations. It is obligated to communicate Islam not to the arabs but to the world. Muhammed was a messenger and he was the last of the prophets. The last revelation from God .

That is why we follow Islam .

salam

Thank you for your answer. I don’t necessarily agree with it, but at least I think I understand what you’re saying.