Why be Catholic and not Orthodox?

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Trebor135 said:
I can say, though, that all the Muslims I’ve known during my time in high school and university have been friendly, upstanding people. But I’m not going to convert to Islam on this basis! 🙂

I’d like to ask you to describe in more detail what “experience [you’ve had] with Orthodox believers” which you found so off-putting.
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Some of them have a very exclusivist attitude. If you aren’t Orthodox some almost think you’re a waste of breath. And of course you can’t be Orthodox if you aren’t Russian/Greek/Romanian etc.

Not only that, have you ever read the orthodoxinfo site?
 
Credo_ergo_sum said:
Some of them have a very exclusivist attitude. If you aren’t Orthodox some almost think you’re a waste of breath. And of course you can’t be Orthodox if you aren’t Russian/Greek/Romanian etc.
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I’ve never run into one of these in real life myself. But perhaps that’s just because people in the South have something called manners.
Credo_ergo_sum said:
Not only that, have you ever read the orthodoxinfo site?
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Surely, websites like that are not unique to the Orthodox.
 
Credo_ergo_sum said:
Some of them have a very exclusivist attitude. If you aren’t Orthodox some almost think you’re a waste of breath.
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Are there any online posts, articles, or essays which exemplify this attitude?

Maybe you have in mind someone like the recently canonized Serbian saint Fr. Justin Popović? He described Protestantism as an inferior form of Catholicism, where all mystery–embodied in the sacraments–is discarded, and all believers–not just one man, the pope–claim to be infallible in matters of faith. He also compared the pope, as an office-holder, to Judas and Adam on account of falling into so grave an error as papal infallibility. With enough thought and skill, it couldn’t be too difficult to come up with an equally scornful and polemical response to Eastern Orthodoxy…
And of course you can’t be Orthodox if you aren’t Russian/Greek/Romanian etc.
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Based on what I’ve heard and read, I’m not surprised to hear you raise this issue. The Eastern Catholics must be just as prone to this attitude, however, since their churches are based on a particular ethnic or national group: Albanian, Armenian, Assyrian (Chaldean), Phoenician (Maronite), Romanian, Syrian (Melkite), Ukrainian.
Not only that, have you ever read the orthodoxinfo site?
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Not a whole lot, though I took a look at this recently.

Did something you read on that site rub you the wrong way? I do have the impression that they’re pretty triumphalistic…
 
Credo_ergo_sum said:
Some of them have a very exclusivist attitude. If you aren’t Orthodox some almost think you’re a waste of breath. And of course you can’t be Orthodox if you aren’t Russian/Greek/Romanian etc.
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Something that seems to happen in the odd ethnic parish, which are far from exclusive to the Orthodox Church. A sad result of people who don’t understand their faith.
Not only that, have you ever read the orthodoxinfo site?
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Yep, and I’ve read just as bad, if not worse, from Protestant and Catholic sites.

I’m not trying to argue “They do it to so it’s ok” here, although looking over my post it looks a bit like that. Rather I’m trying to say that this is a phenomenon related to something other than the faith. If I had to offer a guess, I’d say it is a result of cultural exclusivity, for those who hang on to their faith as a way to distinguish themselves from the majority culture.
 
Credo_ergo_sum said:
Sadly so. I happened to read the fish eaters forum yesterday. That was not a nice sight either.
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Yikes. Never been to that forum. I don’t really like the main website itself, either. It does have lots of fantastic information and resources, but its particular breed of traditionalism borders on dissent so much that obfuscation is common. That website does not look at today’s Catholic Church with the “hermeneutic of continuity” that Pope Benedict so strongly promotes.
Credo_ergo_sum said:
This for example.
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Ouch. Yeah, that’s pretty bad. Until I clicked that link I never actually encountered any piece of writing that had the brass to call the Oriental Orthodox “monophysites” directly and without apology or clarification.

But anyway, yes, on the Internet at least, Catholic and Orthodox triumphalism are all too commonplace. I believe that charity and truth demand that we not judge our respective churches by those with such problematic attitudes.
Nine_Two said:
Yep, and I’ve read just as bad, if not worse, from Protestant and Catholic sites.

I’m not trying to argue “They do it too so it’s ok” here, although looking over my post it looks a bit like that. Rather I’m trying to say that this is a phenomenon related to something other than the faith. If I had to offer a guess, I’d say it is a result of cultural exclusivity, for those who hang on to their faith as a way to distinguish themselves from the majority culture.
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I completely agree. It would be the height of hypocrisy for either a Catholic or an Orthodox Christian to toss each other’s instances of online rudeness at each other.

These occurrences of ugly triumphalism do not reflect upon the true nature or beauty of our faiths.
 
Credo_ergo_sum said:
This for example.
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Wow.

The author is essentially saying, “My Church has always thought yours is in grave error. Despite any and all evidence demonstrating that this view may not be entirely accurate, I’m going to stick to my Church’s longstanding accusations against yours of heresy as completely justified, even though this issue pertains not to a doctrinal matter (what is true) but a disciplinary one (who is at fault). Deal with it! (Remember, I’m speaking the truth in love–an element of which is to persist in making charges that the prosecutor knows not to be airtight with respect to the defendant.)”

Lord help us. :signofcross:
 
Church_Militant said:
Sadly, my own experience with Orthodox believers has been anything but positive. If what they have makes them the way they have spoken to and dealt with me…sorry…I’ll pass.
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As an Orthodox priest told me, there is no Church free from sickness except the Church in the New Jerusalem. If we’re going to a Church here on earth looking for faults, we will definitely find them. That is a guarantee.

When we go to a Church, we should look for Christ.
 
ConstantineTG said:
As an Orthodox priest told me, there is no Church free from sickness except the Church in the New Jerusalem. If we’re going to a Church here on earth looking for faults, we will definitely find them. That is a guarantee.

When we go to a Church, we should look for Christ.
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Quite right. There is sin and weakness enough to go around.
 
I know I’m comin in super late on this one but I figured I’d give my “why I became catholic not Orthodox story”. In all actuality I actually was almost 100% certain that I was going to be Orthodox, however there were a few things keeping me back. Where I grew up (Alabama) there are not a plethora of Orthodox Churches so that kind of set me back. Also (***AND PLEASE DNT TAKE THIS THE WRONG WAY!) Orthodox Churches to me always seemed less “universal” than I expected them to be. Also, I always thought of them as more ethnic Churches than anything. Eventually I became Anglo-Catholic before becoming Catholic. Having said all that, I still attend Vespers at the Orthodox parish in the town that I live in, I really love Orthodox and Eastern Catholic liturgy!!

Nine_Two, what is the view of the OCA?? I always wondered how other Orthodox Churches saw them
 
I didn’t read through this whole thread but I probably will soon. I just wanted to say what happened when I had this question.

I live in Alabama like the poster above me and thankfully have a small (only weekend functioning) Eastern Orthodox parish nearby. We also have about 8 catholic parishes down here. I tried Catholicism first and did RCIA for about 6 months.

There just came a point in my studies where I looked at it all, and the fathers (and early Church history) just aren’t unanimous on the supremacy of the pope. All Catholics can offer is a few proof texts that can be interpreted in different ways a lot of times. It just seemed more likely to me that the pope did in fact get prideful and try to exert more power than he held. All this time I was looking for the Church that Christ founded and the Orthodox church is the more likely one to have not changed and is still teaching what the Apostles taught.

I’m still searching like you are, but I’m pretty much going Orthodox or bust at this point and that’s why. I actually feel like I fought that realization for about 4 months of the 6 that I was looking into Catholicism and it eventually just broke me. So I packed up and went to the Orthodox Church.

Good luck on your Journeys! Remember that you won’t reach it by your intellect alone. PRAY PRAY PRAY! That’s the only thing that will truly guide you to the truth and Lord willing he will get us there.

Peace,
Ryan
 
GodHeals said:
Hi,

Why be Catholic and not Orthodox? I am trying to learn about the Papacy, but don’t know much. I have read about the scriptures and Peter and how the Apostles and Paul went to Peter a lot of times.

I know the Orthodox Church never had an ecumenical council with the Catholic church of Rome to use the same scriptures. I am still learning this and how there was never a universal canon of scripture in the early church.

Rome, Constantinople, Antioch (Syria), Jerusalem, and Alexandria. Where do the last four fit and why did Rome have the authority to be head of the Church? What are the main arguments from both the Orthodox and Catholic Church?

Thanks You and God Bless You!
Brian
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Well, my advice is to pray. What it all came down to for me (deciding if I wanted to be Orthodox or Catholic) was the papacy and what I read from Church Fathers.
 
Contarini said:
  1. The big consideration, though, is unity vs. purity. Is the Church first a communion of folks who hold to the same doctrine,
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By definition Catholicism is unity and purity. It’s not either/or.
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or is it first a communion of folks united in fellowship with Jesus through union with other human beings (with all their human, sinful flaws). Orthodox and conservative Protestants believe the former. Catholics and liberal Protestants believe the latter.
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“The Orthodox Church does not exist”
zenit.org/article-3885?l=english

Protestants whether liberal or conservative, are hoplessly divided in doctrine, and from each other.

both are seperated from the chair of Peter, the pope of Rome.
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The difference is that the Orthodox have a sound basis for their claims to hold to the true doctrine,
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reference?
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and Catholics (through their understanding of ecclesial authority and infallibility) have a way of highlighting unity that does not sideline doctrine
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iow, authority, unity and doctrine are in harmony in the CC.
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as the liberal Protestant approach does. So if you think conservative Protestants (like J. Gresham Machen) are right in their basic approach but wrong in the specifics of their doctrine, you should become Orthodox.
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One should become Catholic, and stop the divisions
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But if you agree with the Episcopal bishop of Washington (and, as far as I can see, the Church Fathers) that schism is worse than heresy, but disagree with him (and agree with the Church Fathers) that it is ever necessary to “choose heresy over schism,” then you should become Catholic.
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Which ECF’s are you quoting that took either one or the other of the following positions.

  1. *]heresy over schism
    *]schism over heresy

    please quote with references.
 
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