Why bother with Catholicism?

[Latetotheparty]

I was reading in another thread about how people of all religions can go to heaven. I am totally on-board with this and I believe it is your good works and love towards each other that ‘save you’.

But this got me thinking about why we bother with Catholicism?

An atheist who does dedicates their life to helping others but masturbates is going to get to heaven but a Catholic who skips confession is going to hell?

Surely, it would be easier to be an atheist and not worry about the ‘rules’? Or now that we know God, we can’t fall back on ignorance?

 

[Vico]

…

The sacraments! Through grace we can remain free from mortal sins.

 

[Lee1]

An atheist who does dedicates their life to helping others but masturbates is going to get to heaven but a Catholic who skips confession is going to hell?

Do we know this atheist is going to heaven? We are saved by faith and good works and so this atheist is going to be in a tricky position.

So I get your point, why don’t we all just have a good time and take it easy?
I day dreamed my way through school, I hated every minute of being cooped up in a stuffy classroom being asked to understand things I wasn’t particularly interested in, I was also very shy which didn’t help. However when I got to the crucial exams we did mocks and I passed quite a few quite easily and so I figured they weren’t a big deal and left school instead of taking the real exams. Then I drifted into an easy life with good pay but no status and no real future and the older I got the more I was tarred with the brush of being a ‘xyz’ and my possibilities shrank more and more.

I did try a university degree for a while but for various reasons I dropped it.

My easy life was an illusion, I paid dear for the illusion of freedom, for wanting to be unrestricted by man made rules.

Now I think I’ll stick to the rules and try to avoid eternal damnation thanks.
Remember though God is a merciful God, a forgiving God and drawing closer to Him we can open up our hearts and begin to love Him and others too. A positive thing.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

I was reading in another thread about how people of all religions can go to heaven. I am totally on-board with this and I believe it is your good works and love towards each other that ‘save you’.

But this got me thinking about why we bother with Catholicism?

Because contrary to popular belief, everything isn’t relative.

If God revealed certain truthes to us it is logical that he wanted us to believe it, that he thought it was important, and that he gave us the wherewithal to be able to identify the message.

There is objective truth and we have the God given means to discover that truth.

 

[adf417]

You might want to study invincible ignorance…

Invincible ignorance is a lack of knowledge, on a matter of faith or morals, without grave culpability for that ignorance. The ignorance is termed invincible, though not in an absolute sense. For all the truths of the eternal moral law needed to avoid sin are accessible to reason alone, apart from Divine Revelation. Thus, it might seem as if invincible ignorance should never occur in the realm of morality. But it does occur because fallen sinners, living in a sinful world, have difficulty correctly discerning moral truth. The human person is often unable to make a correct judgment on a matter of faith or morals, due to ignorance and the influence of sinful society, despite a sincere conscience.

Taken from HERE

Peace!!!

 

[KevinK]

If someone were told that Catholicism is true but was unconvinced after looking into it, would they be covered by “ignorance”. After all, your beliefs are not subject to your will.

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

Or now that we know God, we can’t fall back on ignorance?

That’s pretty much the idea.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

If someone were told that Catholicism is true but was unconvinced after looking into it, would they be covered by “ignorance”. After all, your beliefs are not subject to your will.

According to church teaching, if you had the opportunity to know, but rejected that opportunity you are not invincibily ignorant.

However, we cannot determine whether anyone willfully and knowingly rejected an opportunity to know the Truth. That’s a judgement rightly left to God.

 

[Latetotheparty]

So, by being Catholic, we’re basically cutting down time in purgatory and givin ourselves the best chance of achieving heaven?

Other religions/non-religious still have a chance but may be more difficult?

 

[mrsdizzyd]

So, by being Catholic, we’re basically cutting down time in purgatory and givin ourselves the best chance of achieving heaven?

Other religions/non-religious still have a chance but may be more difficult?

I think you are approaching this the wrong way.

The reason this teaching on invincible ignorance exists is because we know God is perfectly merciful and just. It would be contrary to his nature to punish someone for what they truly did not know.

At the same time, God is love. It is also contrary to his nature to want to deny people the ability to know him. Additionally, God, being just, would rightly judge someone who knowingly/willfully rejected him.

 

[MT1926]

But this got me thinking about why we bother with Catholicism?

I’m going to give you a couple of analogies.

Dr. David Andres would respond to this by saying why bother with antibiotics? Sure you have an infected cut on your leg but hey many people, through the centuries, where able to still live but keeping their cut clean and bandaged until they got it to heal on their own.

What makes more sense risk dying from the infection or go to the doctor (The Church) and get the antibiotic (Jesus) to heal the infection. Sure there is no guarantee that you take the antibiotic (Jesus) that you still won’t die, because of further infection (breaking the rules/sin) but your chances of not dying are far better now that you know where the further infection can come from.

Another analogy that works for me personally, because it comes from the other side. I’m a self taught cabinet maker. One day decided I wanted to do it and went out and bought myself a wood shop. Never took a single class and never had anyone teach me. No I didn’t fail, I actually succeeded. Built more kitchens and more furniture than I care to remember. However, now that I look back, on my success, I see that it was a long hard road filled with many mistakes and many failures along the road.

Where I am going with this is I can now realize two things.

1. If I asked for the help, of those who have already “run the race” I probably would have become even better even sooner.
2. This is the key, the only reason I succeeded was because I was able to see my failure and make the necessary correction for the next attempt.

Well you guessed it. We only get one attempt in this life, we can’t see the end result and make the necessary corrections. But guess what we are in luck. Jesus left us a Church, He showed them the end results and already taught them the necessary corrections to easy our journey.

The rules aren’t there as burdens they are blessings. I have a rule in my house it goes don’t place your hand on the wood burning stove. Is that rule a burden or a blessing? The three year old sees it as a burden the 12 year old, who touched the stove, now realizes it was always a blessing.

We are three year old’s in comparison to God’s wisdom.

On a final note

Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”

Jesus tells us here that His yoke (the rules) are easy and not a burden in comparison to what is to come.

God Bless

 

[Fauken]

So, by being Catholic, we’re basically cutting down time in purgatory and givin ourselves the best chance of achieving heaven?

It is entirely possible for Catholics to go to Hell. Catholicism is not a get out of jail free card.

Other religions/non-religious still have a chance but may be more difficult?

I once heard a quote that said that only one in every ten-thousand Catholics would end up in Heaven. Now, this isn’t a number supported by the Church, but let’s just consider it as a matter of scale. Imagine salvation is like a massive and complex maze. Catholicism is a map that will show you the path you need to take to get out of that maze. It is entirely your choice to follow the map, take detours, or even burn it at your own peril. You can decide the map is a lie and you can find your own way out. But how likely is it that you will?

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Basically, your entire opening premise is wrong. Everyone doesn’t get to Heaven, and all religions do not have the capacity in and of themselves to save souls.

All people have the capacity to get to Heaven, in the same way someone lost in the desert has the capacity to find water. It might happen, but the chances are far greater that you’ll die of dehydration first.

Christianity in general is like having a full canteen when you start out. It’ll improve your chances, but you’re still going to be hard pressed to make it.

Catholicism is like having a full jeep, gps navigation system, and a hundred gallons of drinking water ready to go. So long as you don’t make stupid decisions, and so long as you do what you should in the situation, you should make it.

Your premise is called universalism. It is a heresy, and it is born of a flawed understanding of the nature of eternity and the means by which God has chosen to save us.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Depends on what causes you to not accept something. If it’s born of a legitimate inability to accept some truth, due either to the way it was presented or some other defect of the mind / knowledge which makes it practically impossible for you to comprehend, then yeah, ignorance could apply.

However, if it’s because you don’t like the implications it would have on your life, or you merely disagree with some teaching on an emotional level, then no, ignorance would likely not apply.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The Catholic Church has the fullness of “Revealed Truth,” not the fullness of truth.

There is so much more the Church doesn’t know for God hasn’t revealed it yet.

Jim

 

[ZMystiCat]

I was reading in another thread about how people of all religions can go to heaven.

Someone from any religion can go to heaven. We don’t generally operate under the assumption that they will, since it would occur outside the normal means.

I am totally on-board with this and I believe it is your good works and love towards each other that ‘save you’.

Paul spent much of his time tell us that it wasn’t our works that save us. It is Jesus and the grace of God. Sure, works of love manifest by our receptiveness to that and cooperation with it, but it is not our own works that save us.

This is, in part, why it is so important to be connected to the sacraments. They are the normal way that God administers grace. They are the way that He told us He would.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

They would still be ignorant of the truth

Full knowledge requires more than just being told something is true. Ignorance remains when you’ve fail to grasp it.

Knowledge is having full understanding of that truth which also requires knowledge of the true self.

Religion must be transformative, not arguing about who has it right.

Jim

 

[Joe_5859]

Our goal in life should not be to “get away with” as much as we possibly can while still eking our way into heaven by the skin of our teeth. Our goal should be to live according to Truth. As God is Truth and has definitely revealed himself to us in Christ, then we ought to desire with all our being to be in relationship with him.

Do not envy the atheist who was able to “enjoy” a lifetime of masturbation simply because he may make it to heaven in light of possibly invincible ignorance. Think of how much more good he might have done. Think of all the lost opportunities because he did not have access to the grace of the sacraments. And certainly we hold out hope for the salvation of all. But the only way we know with certainty that God saves is through Baptism and following Christ.

I prefer to stick with what I know.

 

[Genesis315]

Salvation is not by works alone. Faith in Christ is absolutely necessary. From the CCC:

161 Believing in Jesus Christ and in the One who sent him for our salvation is necessary for obtaining that salvation.42 "Since “without faith it is impossible to please [God]” and to attain to the fellowship of his sons, therefore without faith no one has ever attained justification, nor will anyone obtain eternal life ‘But he who endures to the end.’"43

What we do acknowledge is that “in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him” (CCC 848).

It is those who, in response to God’s grace, seek Him and follow an upright conscience that are led to this faith. It bears pointing out too that “no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man.” (CCC 1860). The commandments apply to all.

We should not pass judgment on someone who does not yet have the necessary faith to be saved. As we learn in Christ’s parable of the laborers in the vineyard, God, in His infinite wisdom, sends his grace at different times, even at the “eleventh hour” (which signifies the last moments of life).

When some Protestants argued that the existence of pagans meant Christ did not offer salvation to all, St. Robert Bellarmine countered as follows:

De Gratis et Libero Arbitrio, lib. 2, cap. 8

This argument only proves that not all people receive the help they need to believe and be converted immediately. It does not, however, prove that some people are deprived, absolutely speaking, of sufficient help for salvation. For the pagans to whom the Gospel has not yet been preached, can know from His creatures that God exists; then they can be stimulated by God, through His preventing grace, to believe in God, that He exists and that He is the rewarder of those who seek Him: and from such faith, they can be inspired, under the guidance and help of God, to pray and give alms and in this way obtain from God a still greater light of faith, which God will communicate to them, either by Himself or through angels or through men.

Pope Francis taught the same thing in his own way in his first encyclical:

Lumen Fidei

Because faith is a way, it also has to do with the lives of those men and women who, though not believers, nonetheless desire to believe and continue to seek. To the extent that they are sincerely open to love and set out with whatever light they can find, they are already, even without knowing it, on the path leading to faith…Any-one who sets off on the path of doing good to others is already drawing near to God, is already sustained by his help, for it is characteristic of the divine light to brighten our eyes whenever we walk towards the fullness of love.

 

[MiserereMei25]

"1. The excuse of ignorance only applies to people who are ignorant by no fault of their own . Willfully staying ignorant and refusing to educate yourself so that you can use the excuse of, “I didn’t know any better,” is itself a major sin. It will not get you into Heaven, and actually could likely land you in Hell.
2. The Church teaches that it’s possible that non-Catholics may go to Heaven, not that it’s likely or that it even happens at all (we don’t know).

Catholicism is the one religion with the fullness of the truth. So although it’s possible that one may get to Heaven if they are of another religion, it is much more likely that one who follows Catholicism will get to Heaven (as long as they are truly trying to live by its precepts, at least; being nominally Catholic but living like an unrepentant sinner won’t fool God). Catholicism is the only safe route."

AMEN