Why Bread Only and Not Wine?

[Timidity]

Neithan:

How does intinction work, exactly? Does the priest dip the Host into the Precious Blood and then place it on the tongue? Does the deacon hold the chalice for him? Doesn’t this cause a high risk of Blood dripping from the Host onto the ground?

Intinction sets (at least the ones I’ve seen) are a bowl like devices with the chalice in the middle and the consecrated hosts around the bottom. The priest inticts the host–the technique that he uses prevents “drippage”. Even if it didn’t, the patten being held under the communicant’s chin by the server would catch any such drippage.

 

[cheddarsox]

I’m puzzled. If Christ did not hesitate to spill His blood on our behalf, why must we be so scrupulous in protecting it that it be witheld from the people for whom He instituted the sacrament?

I would think that whatever measures, even if they be inconvenient or take extra time, would be appropriate to follow the words of Christ himself, that we eat His body and drink His blood.

cheddar

 

[Akanke]

cheddarsox:

I’m puzzled. If Christ did not hesitate to spill His blood on our behalf, why must we be so scrupulous in protecting it that it be witheld from the people for whom He instituted the sacrament?

I would think that whatever measures, even if they be inconvenient or take extra time, would be appropriate to follow the words of Christ himself, that we eat His body and drink His blood.

cheddar

Tradition seems to indicate (in the article I posted in post 16) that the apostles interpreted Christ’s words to mean only those present and their successors must consume both. Tradition comes from the apostles, and this is documented in various councils and such. Again, the Summa and the Catholic Encyclopedia both state the cases clearly (especially the Summa), and I think this is all referenced in the Council of Trent.

I understand where your train of thought is because that is where I started. I have come to accept that the Church teaches this, and, if it be wrong, it is not on my own hands that I have inadequately followed the command of Christ. The Church has been given the authority to issue such teachings, and I have committed myself to the Truth of Christ and trust the authority that He granted the Church.

Take a look at this quote from the Catholic Encyclopedia:

The institution under both kinds, or the separate consecration of the bread and wine, belongs essentially, in Catholic opinion, to the sacrificial, as distinct from the sacramental, character of the Eucharist; and when Christ in the words “Do this for a commemoration of me” (Luke 22:19), gave to the Apostles both the command and the power to offer the Eucharistic sacrifice, they understood Him merely to impose upon them and their successors in the priesthood the obligation of sacrificing sub utraque. This obligation the Church has rigorously observed.

 

[Neithan]

Timidity:

Intinction sets (at least the ones I’ve seen) are a bowl like devices with the chalice in the middle and the consecrated hosts around the bottom. The priest inticts the host–the technique that he uses prevents “drippage”. Even if it didn’t, the patten being held under the communicant’s chin by the server would catch any such drippage.

Hm. Seems to me like this would be the ideal way to receive. Both Species without the necessity of an extra EMHC (we really need to cut down on these IMhO). I wonder why it’s not widely practiced, at least I’ve never seen it.

 

[RobNY]

Neithan:

Hm. Seems to me like this would be the ideal way to receive. Both Species without the necessity of an extra EMHC (we really need to cut down on these IMhO). I wonder why it’s not widely practiced, at least I’ve never seen it.

Intinction simply was never the practice in the West. It tends to be used in the East much more widely.

 

[Timidity]

RobNY:

Intinction simply was never the practice in the West. It tends to be used in the East much more widely.

Not sure what you mean by that. Maybe you meant “common practice”, as intiction is perfectly authorized in the West (as is the spoon and straw). Intinction was the norm for the diocese of my youth (from the beginning of my Church memory in the mid-1970’s all the way to when I moved in the mid-1980’s).

 

[mosher]

Neithan:

Hm. Seems to me like this would be the ideal way to receive. Both Species without the necessity of an extra EMHC (we really need to cut down on these IMhO). I wonder why it’s not widely practiced, at least I’ve never seen it.

Also, only a Bishop, Priest or Deacon can intinct. An Instituted Acolyte or an EMHC do not have the faculties to distribute communion is such manner.

 

[AltarMan]

When I was a child, we received Holy Communion each Sunday via intinction from a single priest aided by two altar boys – one to hold the communion paten, the other to hold the chalice of Precious Blood.

Today the same priest (literally in some cases), 8 EMsHC and two “liturgical leaders” are required.

More people used to attend each Mass in the old days. Something is amiss…

 

[Brendan]

mosher:

Also, only a Bishop, Priest or Deacon can intinct. An Instituted Acolyte or an EMHC do not have the faculties to distribute communion is such manner.

That was my understanding, but I haven’t been able to find any documentation to back that up

Do you have a citation?

 

[Dr.Bombay]

mosher:

Also, only a Bishop, Priest or Deacon can intinct. An Instituted Acolyte or an EMHC do not have the faculties to distribute communion is such manner.

Oh, give them time. Shortly Rome will approve an indult for the United States allowing any baptized Catholic (and in “extraordinary” situations, the unbaptized) to dip, dunk, swizzle and twirl the Precious Body and Blood with impunity. Soon after, it will be extended to the universal Church.

Hurray, progress! :clapping:

 

[RobNY]

Timidity:

Not sure what you mean by that. Maybe you meant “common practice”, as intiction is perfectly authorized in the West (as is the spoon and straw). Intinction was the norm for the diocese of my youth (from the beginning of my Church memory in the mid-1970’s all the way to when I moved in the mid-1980’s).

I did mean common practice. I realize it is completely legitimate to use.

It was my conception from the history in the West of denying the cup to the laity to suppress the heresy that each species does not contain the Body and Blood was just one of the reasons that we typically tended to receive under one species.

It seems to me that I’ve underestimated the prevalence of intinction in any case, though. I meant more to contrast it from the Eastern churches where, at least from the impression I have received, it is the norm.

 

[Neithan]

Perhaps it would be a good idea to distribute only the Body at Sunday High Mass, but both Species via intinction at daily Low Mass. This would be both practical and curb any heresy, but also offer the faithful the Precious Blood.

 

[SFH]

ChristianWAB:

I’ve been wondering about this issue for a while now and wanted to get some (name removed by moderator)ut *(please forgive me if I don’t get all of the terms correct). *

I always SEE the priest consecrate the body first; then the blood. The priest partakes of both. He consumes the body (host), then drinks the blood (wine). However, when the people line up to receive the same, they only receive the Eucharistic Host (body). No wine, whether diluted or otherwise, is ever given to those who attend the mass.

Someone told me that decision to withhold the “blood” dates back to the Council of Trent. Still another tried to convince me that the body AND blood are contained within the Host. But if this were true, the priest would have no need to even bother with the wine because the body AND blood are already in the Host.

Therein lies my biggest confusion.

I know it can’t be “symbolic” because Catholics believe that this is the real body and blood of Jesus, so why can’t the priest share the WINE blood with everybody else? Why is it that only the priest drinks the wine, while the rest of us just consume the Host if the Host truly is the body AND BLOOD of Jesus?

Either the Consecrated Host by itself or the Consecrated Wine by itself contains the whole Christ, body, soul, man, and divinity.

The bread and wine are consecrated separately because (1) that is how Christ instituted the Sacrament; and (2) to symbolize that Christ’s blood was shed for us.

Incidentally, the reason the priest places a small piece of the Consecrated Host back into the chalice after the consecration is to symbolize that we receive the Risen Christ, not the slain Christ whose Blood was separated from His Body.

I use the word “symbolize” because from the moment the words of consecration are spoken over the host the substance of the host is changed into the body and blood of Christ, the living God-Man.

The reason the people historically only received the host was to fight a medieval heresy (that pre-dated the Council of Trent) in which some heretics argued that the Consecrated Host, by itself, did not contain the entire Christ. In response, the Church commanded that the faithful would only receive the Host and be taught that reception of the Host was the reception of Christ’s body and blood.

 

[allen99664]

I have to say that I am disappointed with the Catholic religion. I was raised a Catholic, went to Catholic school and was an alter boy, but the higher ups keep changing things. Used to be in Latin. Used to be only fish and no meat on friday’s. Used to be no communion without 1st going to confession if you committed sins. I have been going to non-denominational churches lately, but decided I needed Holy Communion, so I went to Catholic Church. Was very surprised when I was only offered the Eucharist. I have always been told what amazing power is in the blood and can’t believe that they are omitting what I think is a very powerful part of Holy Communion. I am just a lay person and not that knowledgeable, but I do know that the Holy Spirit was telling me that I needed the Body and Blood of Jesus and couldn’t help but be very discouraged when only offered the Eucharist. I can receive both at the church I go to now, but they only offer communion once a month. Oh Well the more churches I go to the better. I will go to as many as it takes to be able to receive both the body AND the blood of our Saviour Jesus Christ.

 

[janman55]

I have to say that I am disappointed with the Catholic religion. I was raised a Catholic, went to Catholic school and was an alter boy, but the higher ups keep changing things. Used to be in Latin. Used to be only fish and no meat on friday’s. Used to be no communion without 1st going to confession if you committed sins. I have been going to non-denominational churches lately, but decided I needed Holy Communion, so I went to Catholic Church. Was very surprised when I was only offered the Eucharist. I have always been told what amazing power is in the blood and can’t believe that they are omitting what I think is a very powerful part of Holy Communion. I am just a lay person and not that knowledgeable, but I do know that the Holy Spirit was telling me that I needed the Body and Blood of Jesus and couldn’t help but be very discouraged when only offered the Eucharist. I can receive both at the church I go to now, but they only offer communion once a month. Oh Well the more churches I go to the better. I will go to as many as it takes to be able to receive both the body AND the blood of our Saviour Jesus Christ.

When you receive Holy Communion ,even under the species of Bread alone. You receive the sanctified Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. The teaching of the Church on this matter is basic and easy to find and understand. Please take the time to understand the faith before you criticize it.

You can go to as many “churches” as you like but you will only receive this holy gift from the Church founded and in the Sacrament instituted by Jesus Christ Himself.

 

[Lapey]

QUOTE=allen99664;10651967]I have to say that I am disappointed with the Catholic religion. I was raised a Catholic, went to Catholic school and was an alter boy, but the higher ups keep changing things. Used to be in Latin. Used to be only fish and no meat on friday’s. Used to be no communion without 1st going to confession if you committed sins. I have been going to non-denominational churches lately, but decided I needed Holy Communion, so I went to Catholic Church. Was very surprised when I was only offered the Eucharist. I have always been told what amazing power is in the blood and can’t believe that they are omitting what I think is a very powerful part of Holy Communion. I am just a lay person and not that knowledgeable, but I do know that the Holy Spirit was telling me that I needed the Body and Blood of Jesus and couldn’t help but be very discouraged when only offered the Eucharist. I can receive both at the church I go to now, but they only offer communion once a month. Oh Well the more churches I go to the better. I will go to as many as it takes to be able to receive both the body AND the blood of our Saviour Jesus Christ.

First off, you are new here so welcome. First thing you need to do is read the forum rules, resurrecting old threads is not allowed and this one will be locked as it is from '05.

Second, you seem to be disappointed in what you perceive the Catholic Church to be, not in the Church. The Catholic Church is not one of the churches, She is THE Church built on Peter the Rock with Jesus sitting at the Head.

Third, if you have been away and a lapsed Catholic, you are still Catholic but you are not in a position to receive the Eucharist at all unless you have met with your priest and come back into communion and received reconciliation. Then you could partake in the Body and Blood worthily, even though you may only receive in the species of bread, you would receive both Body and Blood.

Forth, to feel that “the more churches I go to the better”, shows you are not ready to receive truly what God has to offer. There is only one Church, Jesus sits at the Head of Her; She is Catholic and holds all truth. Ask and it shall be given to you, seek and you shall find, knock and the door shall be opened to you; or you can stay outside searching in what the world has told you about God. The Church can tell you the truth if you listen!