Why can't abortion and social justice come together

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On everything but abortion, I agree with most of social justice policies regarding the poor, etc… Why can’t these two sides be brought together. Abortion is too big an issue for me to give at all in the other areas. If people would agree to encompass abortion and social justice together, it would be much easier to support the other justice issues.
 
I’ve been asking that my entire teenage and adult life. I was 11 when Roe v. Wade happened.
 
That’s a great question…I’d guess that it’s become a political ‘battle’ over the years…to me, abortion is preeminent, and I haven’t voted for a Democrat since they included abortion in their party platform…My social justice friends, and I love them all, insist that ‘Jesus would be a Democrat’…I volunteer at the local food bank, help with the community garden, and support immigration reform in any way I can, but I’ll never vote for a Democrat!
 
I think it’s wrong for factions to hijack a monopoly on issues e.g you’re not allowed to support social justice if you don’t kow tow to every last detail of someone’s ideology, not allowed to be a humanist if you’re a Christian, not allowed to be a thinker if you’re not a non-thinker, etc.

Not that I would want to “Christianise” humanists as a rule in the sense of put them through any sausage machine. Just be alongside them able to collaborate as and when or if an appropriate project presented itself. I wouldn’t regard them as letting their own “side” down if they embraced any or no faith, unless they chose solely for themselves to restrain themselves thus. And other people have the right to club together more closely among themselves and regard me as at most an “associate”. In practice Christians too have to be individual, uncomfortable as that makes some factions.

There appears to be layers to “humanism”, there is a newer narrower sense, which hasn’t replaced the older one but is in parallel.

Supporting rights is open to everybody as much or as little as they feel able.

Bring back cafeterias!
 
On everything but abortion, I agree with most of social justice policies regarding the poor, etc… Why can’t these two sides be brought together. Abortion is too big an issue for me to give at all in the other areas. If people would agree to encompass abortion and social justice together, it would be much easier to support the other justice issues.
It’s not two sides. The protection of life, especially the most vulnerable (unborn, children, aged, disabled) IS a social justice issue. The question should not whether to support one over the other but how supporting the protection of life will also lead to fulfilling other social justice imperatives.
 
It’s not two sides. The protection of life, especially the most vulnerable (unborn, children, aged, disabled) IS a social justice issue. The question should not whether to support one over the other but how supporting the protection of life will also lead to fulfilling other social justice imperatives.
Exactly. The teachings of the Catholic Church actually do not separate social justice from the protection of life and the dignity of life. In fact, you cannot have one without the other. It is the world that wishes to divide the two. It is not socially just to allow for abortion; neither is it pro-life to not care for those on the margins of society. The bishops understand this, which is why the official guide from the bishops does not mention “the five/six/seven non-negotiables”. The document that mentions them is from “Catholic Answers”, not from the bishops. Instead, the bishops state in their document to not take small pieces from the document to push one’s political agenda - which they warn has been done by many people from all sides of the political spectrum.
 
It’s not two sides. The protection of life, especially the most vulnerable (unborn, children, aged, disabled) IS a social justice issue. The question should not whether to support one over the other but how supporting the protection of life will also lead to fulfilling other social justice imperatives.
I agree. Some seem to think that if “social justice” issues are not approached in the way they think they should be, those advocates do not care about social issues. There is more than one way to skin a cat and I, for you, am tired of hearing that conservatives do not care for the poor and disadvantaged. There are many ways to help those who need help and it does not only include giving them things. Those who can work, should work, and earn their own way thus preserving their dignity. Of course during the past 7 years we have had more people unemployed than ever before and in far too many households there is no one who is working. We are encouraging a generation of dependent people who are satisfied to belly up to the government trough. Not so many years ago, most people would be too proud to do that. Not now.
 
It’s not two sides. The protection of life, especially the most vulnerable (unborn, children, aged, disabled) IS a social justice issue. The question should not whether to support one over the other but how supporting the protection of life will also lead to fulfilling other social justice imperatives.
👍
 
There aren’t enough jobs because money has been wrongly sucked out of small and even many bigger businesses. Also, schools don’t strengthen skills.
 
There aren’t enough jobs because money has been wrongly sucked out of small and even many bigger businesses. Also, schools don’t strengthen skills.
In the US there are not enough jobs because of unnecessary regulations and a high tax on businesses. Companies, strange as it may seem, are in the business of making money and not to provide jobs. When taxes on businesses go up, the owners move the business to a country where they can prosper more. Some people do not seem to realize that taxing businesses more and more results in them moving or going bankrupt, neither of which provides jobs for those who want to work.
 
…to me, abortion is preeminent, and I haven’t voted for a Democrat since they included abortion in their party platform…My social justice friends, and I love them all, insist that ‘Jesus would be a Democrat’…
Many people, including me, believe that the Christ will be returning to the world very soon, maybe as soon as the next couple of years. We will find out soon enough what the opinion and advice of the Christ are regarding these issues. I think people on both sides may be surprised by what he has to say.

The criteria for judgment are clearly stated in Matthew 25:35-40 - they are all social justice issues - but no mention of abortion. Maybe he just forgot.
 
In the US there are not enough jobs because of unnecessary regulations and a high tax on businesses. Companies, strange as it may seem, are in the business of making money and not to provide jobs. When taxes on businesses go up, the owners move the business to a country where they can prosper more. Some people do not seem to realize that taxing businesses more and more results in them moving or going bankrupt, neither of which provides jobs for those who want to work.
Well, thats mostly about greed, plenty of companies had US factories in decades past, and things were fine. moving to a cheaper production area is only to increase profit, but at the same time, these same companies fly the american flag, celebrate Independence day on July 4th, etc…but they arent really ‘that patriotic’, money comes before pride in your country to them.

Part of being patriotic is just sucking it up and dealing with it, not trying to jump the fence to where the grass looks greener, if they are patriotic, they will stay in the US no matter how much it costs.
 
Well, thats mostly about greed, plenty of companies had US factories in decades past, and things were fine. moving to a cheaper production area is only to increase profit, but at the same time, these same companies fly the american flag, celebrate Independence day on July 4th, etc…but they arent really ‘that patriotic’, money comes before pride in your country to them.

Part of being patriotic is just sucking it up and dealing with it, not trying to jump the fence to where the grass looks greener, if they are patriotic, they will stay in the US no matter how much it costs.
Well, for a company to do that, prices will have to go up. Part of being patriotic, according to your definition, is for consumers to just “suck it up and deal with it” if things cost more. :rolleyes:
 
Well, for a company to do that, prices will have to go up. Part of being patriotic, according to your definition, is for consumers to just “suck it up and deal with it” if things cost more. :rolleyes:
Honestly, if I had to pay $30 more for an air conditioning unit, just because it was made in the US, versus somewhere else, Yeah, Im fine with that, especially since I know the reason for that cost is to ensure other fellow americans have good jobs…absolutely yes.

Same goes for daily things we buy too, furniture, clothing, shoes, cell phones, etc etc. that is what patriotism entails, pride in your country…not going elsewhere just because its a little bit cheaper.

Plus, Id be curious to see how much more things cost if they were made in the US versus China or other remote places, remember, shipping things halfway around the world cost a lot of money too.
 
Honestly, if I had to pay $30 more for an air conditioning unit, just because it was made in the US, versus somewhere else, Yeah, Im fine with that, especially since I know the reason for that cost is to ensure other fellow americans have good jobs…absolutely yes.

Same goes for daily things we buy too, furniture, clothing, shoes, cell phones, etc etc. that is what patriotism entails, pride in your country…not going elsewhere just because its a little bit cheaper.

Plus, Id be curious to see how much more things cost if they were made in the US versus China or other remote places, remember, shipping things halfway around the world cost a lot of money too.
I suppose we might test how this would work by starting with the I-phone. If they all had to be made in the U.S. how much would they cost and what would their market share be? I believe that President Obama once asked the question of Steve Jobs, whose reply was “Mr. President, those jobs are never coming back to the U.S.”
 
I suppose we might test how this would work by starting with the I-phone. If they all had to be made in the U.S. how much would they cost and what would their market share be? I believe that President Obama once asked the question of Steve Jobs, whose reply was “Mr. President, those jobs are never coming back to the U.S.”
Generally most retail products have around a 200-300% markup for profit, so I guess you would have to figure out what an iphone cost to produce right now, then compare it US wages, and you should have the answer.

I dont think it would be much more, as shipping from that far adds tremendous cost. If made in the US, it wouldnt need to spend weeks on an ocean going cargo ship. Plus the more people working in these US factories making these things, would mean MUCH more tax revenue, more people with more money in their pockets in the US.

Products I have had experience with in my jobs over the years boils down to this…

When I was in the pizza business, it cost us about $1.50 to produce one large pizza with one topping, that includes materials and labor, electric, rent, everything, and the pizza was sold for around $15. retail.

In my job now, I deal with convenience store type products, cigarettes, chips, sodas, point of sale items, etc. a pack of brand name cigarettes in KY costs about $.75 to produce (labor, materials, advertising, taxes, etc) and they are sold for around $6. retail.
 
Generally most retail products have around a 200-300% markup for profit, so I guess you would have to figure out what an iphone cost to produce right now, then compare it US wages, and you should have the answer.

I dont think it would be much more, as shipping from that far adds tremendous cost. If made in the US, it wouldnt need to spend weeks on an ocean going cargo ship. Plus the more people working in these US factories making these things, would mean MUCH more tax revenue, more people with more money in their pockets in the US.

Products I have had experience with in my jobs over the years boils down to this…

When I was in the pizza business, it cost us about $1.50 to produce one large pizza with one topping, that includes materials and labor, electric, rent, everything, and the pizza was sold for around $15. retail.

In my job now, I deal with convenience store type products, cigarettes, chips, sodas, point of sale items, etc. a pack of brand name cigarettes in KY costs about $.75 to produce (labor, materials, advertising, taxes, etc) and they are sold for around $6. retail.
There’s nothing stopping Apple or any other manufacturer, from opening manufacturing plants in the U.S. They would likely have to pay U.S. workers more, but they would still face competition from foreign manufacturers. And if production were moved to the U.S., more U.S. workers would be employed, but a great many foreign workers would face unemployment. Can U.S. manufacturing compete in a global economy?
 
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